Pertronix coil and points

JasonNC

I'm thinking about going back to my old points system to see if I can get rid of this irritating miss in my engine.  I am willing to use the old coil that was on the car before I switched to the Pertronix unit, but I bought this Flame Thrower coil when I bought the electronic ignition kit.  I really would like to use it with points system, however I'm worried that the Flame Thrower will burn up the points a lot faster than the original coil.  Am I correct?  

Kdancy

Before you go back to points, give pertronics a call and talk to their tech department.

Hudson Grandpa

What Kdancy says.  I have had Pertronix and Flamer thrower coil for  about 4 yrs on my 54 232 cpe..  I would not go back to points.  I also have a alternator 6V not a gen.  I got in touch with Pertronix..  What are the spark wires you have they said?   . Pertronix said I have the wrong spark plug wires, and they were right.  New wires give a hotter spark to the plugs. And then if you have misses after installing all new wiring, then you have carb problems. I use Champion H10c. Don't need a hot plug as I live in TX.

JasonNC

I did call them.  He told me to take the green disk off and turn it a space and see if the miss on #5 moves to another cylinder.  I couldn't get the disk off either.  (See my post about rotor button earlier).  I've got the best wires that NAPA sells and they have served me well.  I'll hold off on the points switch and let a better mechanic than I see if he can figure out what's wrong....

dougson

I would stay away from the pertronix coil, too much heat/spark. I had one with my pertronix ignition and it burned up my ballast resister.

Kdancy

Dougson, I've run the pertronix for years on different vehicles with no issues. Are you running the correct coil? I run coils with internal ballast resister, don't need the external ballast.

Henk_Brough

With the complete restoring of my 212 engine from 1937 I decided also to buy a complete Pertronix system.
I was still running in the engine, so I could not speed up the engine, but I thought the engine was running smoother and has a little more power. After about 50 km there came a couple of big bangs form the exhaust and I the engine stops. With the points again, the engine runs. From Pertronix I have got a new system.No problem.
The only problem, I must pay some 70 dollar for tax and importing in the Netherlands. The new stuf into the distributor and driving again. After about 50 km the same situation : a couple of big bangs from the exhaust and engine stops.
Again mailing with Pertronix, but I even get no answer anymore. My question is : what is wrong ??
I have a new dynamo, 12 V, + on mass. All the parts in the ignition system are new. Last month's I have driven about 1200 km without any problems on patrol. In fact with the Flame thrower. I have not checked the points, but what I understand the points can burn because of the flame thrower. ?? I do not understand how this works ? The points have only to do with 12V and the condenser. Is it possible some of the high Voltage 20-40 K Volt comes back in the lead to the points ?? normaly this voltage go to the  plugs to get a good spark.
In fact my car is after 2 years of spannering, idees, hard work, asking professionals, etc. still not running properly on LPG. On patrol, not perfect , but good. Before the retoring of the engine the car runs much better on LPG than on Patrol. I'am busy now with Cars and Motorcycles for more than 40 years and still there coming things you did not expected and cannot understand. How simple is a coil, poits ignition system,
but still problems arise. Perhaps some of you have an idee ?

Henk_Brough

Sorry, I see it now !! minus on mass. 12 V is correct.

JasonNC

I wish I had seen this before I ordered a replacement Ignitor II from JEGS that is being sent directly from their supplier (I assume Pertronix)  to me.  In the meantime, I put the original distributor (with its points and condenser) back in the car and it's running better than it has in a long time.  I've rigged up a split harness system that will allow me to quickly change from one system to the other by simply taking out the Pertronix distributor and putting the original distributor in its place and vice versa.  For the time being, I'm leaving the original distributor in place and when the Ignitor II gets here, use it as a backup.  At some point, I'm sure I'll change up and use the Pertronix unit, but not until I have enough time on the original system to make a valid comparison.  

Hudson Grandpa

Jason: What you said on September 19th.  If you go back to regular points then go back to the stock coil.  No mix and match.  You haven't said if you are 6 or 12 volts, unless I missed it, and do you have a Gen or Alt. Let Ken U-TX correct me, but is the Pertronix system and a generator a match.? 

JasonNC

Ken:  The original distributor is hooked up to the IC-12 coil that Park recommended.  The coil for it is attached to to the motor.  I have a Pertronix coil that is attached to the interior fender.  I made a plug-in harness that I made from a trailer attachment harness that allows me to switch from one coil to the other by just switching wires.  The car was switched to 12 volts years ago.  It has an alternator with an internal regulator as does the coil.  

Henk_Brough

Thank you very much so far for your comments.   I learned :
1. I need a condensor with a little higher capacity if I use a flame thrower. I understand now how it works. The normal condensor is 0.22 μF. Can someone tells me what capacity is necessary for the flame thrower. I have no contacts with Pertronix as you can read in my last comment. Someone else has perhaps contacts with the people from pertronix ?
2. Indeed I used a Lucas generator set at 12 V minus-mass with mechanical DC box. This is standard for the Brough car ) Why Pertronix does not warn us, not to use this machanical DC box because of the high peaks in the system. At least they could have warned me after I blow up the first system !! Now I payed for it and again blow it up. I have now an AC alternator ( From a modern car )  In fact I do not dare to order another one.

Another question whitch I asked about in the past. ( in fact I already talked about in my first Comment.)
The bad running on LPG. The generator is now an AC one, so no high Voltage in the system anymore.
I told you already I renewed everything. Plugs, leads, points, Coils ( different exemples ) also a new vaporiser to change the liquid LPG in gas. But stil the problem with LPG. Starting cold on LPG : marvelous !! the first 5 miles the engine runs perfect. Than the engine starts to misfire. Special with speeding up in the gears.If the engine is on operating temp. there is almost not to drive on LPG. If I switch back to patrol it is o.k. and the engine runs normal. As I said before : before the restoring of the engine the car runs better on LPG than on patrol. Same carburettor, same ignition system. First with the points, later because of the problems I bought the Pertronix ignition, with the above mentioned results. Patrol is very expensive in Holland. You know the consumption of an Hudson car. LPG is priced about 1/3 of patrol. So that is very interesting. I 'am affraid that if I make a plan to go out with the car my wife has hide the keys. Luckely we know how to start the car without keys !!

Henk_Brough

Thank you Ken for  " Thinking with me " . I bought new plug wires. Silicon ones with copper Core.

I have taken the ones with the lowest resistance.

I use NGK B6HS plugs. My English friends from the Railton Club advises these plugs.

Other correct plugs are not to find in my country. Champion are the best I think.

A student of mine who did his Graduation Job in 1986 with me on the College of Automotive Engineering is specialist in LPG in Holland. We build in the LPG set togather. As said the thing did his work for 6-7 years in a perfect way. We consulted several other specialists in the Netherlands, but nobody till now found the sulution for the problem.

My old student is rather frustrated about the situation.

Indeed you are right the burning temp. for LPG is higher  for patrol. We give a little more LPG so the energie to burn that gives a lower temp. for the engine.

My friend is not so affraid of burned valves because of the extra LPG. And indeed the lash settings I give some extra.

The LPG mixer set up is the same before the restoring of the engine. I tried a new mixer.... no result.

Can you understand that in the meanwhile we get sick of it !!!!!!!!!!!

That is the reason I 'am driving on Patrol now.

As I see on your comments  you know a lot of the subject,  Ken.  I 'am pretty sure it is just a real small thing that is wrong but how to find it ?? May I ask you, Ken and perhaps others to think about the subject.

That is the reason I give you all the information. ( I hope )

I hope that we get to the point I can say : how it is possible I overlooked this point.

It is so nice to drive in the Brough/Hudson or Hudson/Brough that  I hope the problem will be solved soon and I can do more miles in a cheap way.

Henk_Brough

Thank you Ken again for you very quick reaction.  About the polaraty of my car : indeed I told the + on mass

( sorry for my English ) ground. Direct in my next Comment I corrected it is   - on ground !!

The article from NGK is indeed interesting.

1. Perhaps a colder plug. Now it is a 6 type. I think the compression of the Hudson is so low that that is not necessary.

2. The plug gap. To make a good spark there is more energy necessary in LPG systems. If the plug gap is a little narrower the spark will go over easier. I go to test this on my car. This has to wait till november.

Ria and I are so Lucky to go for 3 weeks to South Africa. Of course I let you all know the progres with LPG system.