8 volts a good remedy for hard starting?

J Haugo

I'm considering replacing my weak performing 6 volt battery with an 8 volt.  Good idea? 

J Haugo

Glowplug

NO... Check the starting components and use the largest 6 volt cold cranking volts battery you can stuff in the OEM battery tray. First is clean all the ground and voltage connections and scrub them to gleaming clean! Secure each connection tightly. Remove the starter, clean the commutator, replace the brushes and bearings, assure the contact points on the starter housing and engine mounting plate are clean. If for some reason these are not the causes. Fix the fuel or ignition as they are usual suspects too.

Hudson Grandpa

What Ken says is what basically I went through.  I wouldn't even consider an 8 volt. Everything in that engine has to be in sync electronically, along with the carb.  I am still 6volt,but I am electronic ignition with a 6 volt alternator.  Overhauled carb, new H-11 plugs.  Optima dry cell batteries.800 CCC. Had my generator overhauled when I got the car, but still had starting problems. I went to a alternator because I didn't like the idea that a generator didn't charge the battery until you reached about 25-30MPH. Correct me if I'm wrong Ken.  Alternator charges somewhat even at idle.  I was always on the battery charger until I wised up.. Had my starter overhauled,way back when in the wet cell stage and still works like a champ. I had a 1951 Hornet in 1953-57.  Generator and wet cell battery.  Never had any starting problems then. And I mean never,cold or hot until I had to replace the battery.  BUT!! Back then we had PURE Regular Gasoline. And I mean they didn't know how back then to put additives in it. And you could see the gas while you were putting it in the car. Now I use Premium, and even that at the high price has additives in it.  One more thing.  When I had the generator back a few years ago, even with Optima Batteries I had a pretty sick 55 yr old engine, and that didn't help starting. let alone running.

Jon B

J Haugo, these guys have given you lots of very good ideas.  However, don't be staggered by the sheer number of things they're suggesting.  You very well may not have to do all the other "fixes".

First and foremost -- as everyone has suggested -- make sure you have a good battery and clean connections.  And the correct gauge of battery cable, which will be somewhere about 3/4" diameter.  The battery should (as noted) have cold cranking amps up in the high 700's or even 800. You can find lead-acid batteries or the new gel batteries, which give you those CCA's. 

Just following these preliminary suggestions will probably cause your car to start correctly, UNLESS there is a problem in the starting or ignition system. Try following these first suggestions, THEN start looking beyond them (to the starting or ignition system).

Hudson Grandpa

correction on the additives in the 40s, 50s, 60s.  Lead.

J Haugo

Thanks to all who responded.  I don't have trouble starting with a fresh battery (940 cca @ 32degress and 780 cca @ 0 degrees.  I have two batteries that each show about 6.3 volts but now just barely turn the engine.  I'm tired of buying 6 volt batteries that fail.  I have done the recommended cures mentioned above.

I was hoping to hear from someone who had tried an 8 volt battery,  successfully or not.

J Haugo

Jon B

Just so we understand: you are saying that you have tried all the fixes listed above.  And, you have (at least previously) bought a new battery with 780 CCA. And, using this new battery, the starter turns over the engine (and starts it) okay? 

But the other two batteries do not turn over the engine very fast (and maybe don't start it)?

If that is so, then is it possible that the two batteries have gone bad through age?  Have you taken them to an auto electric shop and had tests performed (like a "stress test" and checking the cells)?

J Haugo

Jon B,

.We are only talking two batteries, both bought new (2nd one after first one failed).  Identical batteries,  same cca..  They each just barely turn the engine over now and the engine does not start.  They each worked fine when I first got them.

Still waiting to hear from someone with 8 volt experience, good or bad.

J Haugo

50C8DAN

I only scanned the responses but I did not see anyone comment about the voltage regulator.  You state your battery is testing at 6.3V, but that is without a load.  My guess is the voltage and consequently your CCA is dropping very quickly once you engage the starter.  I might guess your regulator is not giving your battery its full charge, provided your generator is working up to snuff.   The regulator should be set to give your battery plenty of charge by running a bit over 6V (a 12V systems often charges between 14 and 15V).  Try a new regulator.  Also, besides stressing the crap out of your system by starting with an 8V battery (the bulbs and gages that only work with 6V are not going to like seeing 8V with a fresh battery), you will find out that unless you tweak the regulator your new 8V battery will be no better than your current 6V battery in short order since the regulator is setup to charge a 6V system, not an 8V.

J Haugo

I've been charging the battery with a 6 volt battery charger so the battery is fully charged at the time of attempted start up.    The voltage regulator is not involved at this stage..

Still waiting to hear from someone with 8 volt experience, good or bad.

J Haugo

"starting

terraplane8

My car on 6v starts fine even after lying dormant for several months and without first topping up the battery charge, and that includes grinding away for fifteen to twenty seconds or so to fill the float bowl. I have just replaced the battery after ten years service. I see no reason at all to go to 12v apart from stronger headlights.

Clearly you have something wrong somewhere in your system, and not a design defect as such.

Uncle Josh

Well, I have an 8V battery in the garage, and occasionally use it to jump or start a car that's been sitting around a while,  Then the problem is how do you charge the 8V.  OK use a tractor generator.  Now you're starting to compound error.

BTW, check the oil.  I've seen oil the consistency of grape jelly.  Not mine, and I'm glad it didn't start.

A quick check is to put a different starter in it. It won't spin over like my Toyota, but if it's in reasonable tune it doesn't have to.

ken1962

I thought a 8 volt would be better but remember unless you adjust the regulator it will charge it down to 6 volts. - so don't bother - You have a problem with your electrical system which doesn't need a ban-aid fix. I resolved my problem by cleaning every connector and finally found the problem was the earth cable from the engine to frame. Start by cleaning all the connectors then the generator brushes and then the starter brushes - it took me nearly 2 years spending 30 minutes each weekend trying to stop the gen light flashing - my wiring is reasonably young at 35plus old hope yours isn't original - cause if it is - that's your problem cheers ken

Per

J.,

 Before I rebuilt my '35 Hudson 8 engine about twenty years ago, its compression in several cylinders had gotten low.  It had a hard time starting after it was warmed up, even though the starter turned fast (the car still has its original, very thick wires going from the battery to the starter).

I solved the starting problem by using an 8 volt battery.  The car started nicely.  For the first time, I could see the road when driving at night!  

The generator kept the battery charged, with a reading of about 10 amperes.  However, when rebuilding the engine, I found that some of the windings in the generator were quite burned, so I had it rewound.

Since rebuilding, I have used a 6 volt battery.  The car starts just fine, using either the starter or the hand crank.  These days I just drive the car in daylight, or on streets with street lights (The street lights are brighter now than long ago!), so I don't mind the weak headlights.

Per

PS  I also have a 1959 Citroen, a 6 volt car.  It took a long time to start.  Now I continue to run the car with 6 volts, but I have a 12 volt battery to turn the starter only.  It turns very fast, and the car starts instantly.   

Jon B

Per, are you aware of the quartz-halogen headlight bulbs now being made for the older cars (with the 3-hole "prefocus" base)?  Together with some resilvering of the reflector, the possible addition of a ground wire to the socket and a concealed relay, these should brighten your evenings considerably.

Huddy42

I used 8 volt batteries in both my 1934 and 1935 Hudson 8 cars,never had a problem, just had to move the third brush in the generator to suit,better starting, better lights, had a guy who would cut down the 12 volt batteries to suit the 8 volt unit.Don't need one in the 1942 as it starts easier.

J Haugo

Per and Huddy42,

Thank you both for your responses.  I really appreciate hearing your experiences.  I think I'll try my luck with an 8 volt.

J Haugo

coverton

i have tried all three 6,8,12. First line of defense is to recheck all of your wiring,ground condition clensiness of the connections etc. one trick is to take the heavy wire to the starter and twist it to break any internal corrosion or better yet buy a new one heavier ga.Also remember these care are old and tired so some replacements are needed 

Personally I like 12 Volt one wire GM 10SI Alternator --more amps self excite ! more amps and very cheap and the bulbs are available every where

Also remember it takes less ga to push 12 volts than 6

dwardo99

My Hornet (now owned by Scott Crowder) had 8 volts for the last several years we owned it. It is not as good as 12 volts and has some drawbacks as stated, but it was a considerable upgrade in my experience. Starting was noticeably improved, headlights were absolutely brilliant, and dash lights were much better. The voltage regulator has to be carefully adjusted to provide the proper voltage. It is possible to charge the battery with a 6-volt charger but it takes a long time. The 8-volt batteries are easily available at Battery Warehouse. Biggest problem was it fried the radio immediately. I guess we should have seen that coming, lol. I'd say that if you can't afford or don't have time to do a proper 12-volt conversion and all other problems have been rectified, go ahead. We were always going to go 12 volts but never got around to it. 

snafoo

J Haugo said:

I'm considering replacing my weak performing 6 volt battery with an 8 volt.  Good idea? 

J Haugo

snafoo

i replaced the battery in my 38 hudson 8 with a 12v one and converted the running to 12v starter is 6v and the nessary equipment that required 6v got a 12v to 6v reducer the car startes after half a turn i have an electronic ignition and coil after finding it was only half the price of fixing the badly worn dist note that i had no idea of the internet up till that time and had to use local advice i to have now had nothing but help with my problems during restoration and thank all who have helped .