Edmunds Aluminum Cylinder Head for 1951 to 54 Hudson 308 FOR SALE

VintageRaceCar

Newby here,

Have a really nice Edmunds Finned Aluminum Cylinder Head for a 308 Hudson for sale.

It is currently listed on Ebay at the following link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262242703686?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

This link should get you there. If it's not working, either copy and paste the link in your browser, or look on Ebay

for Edmunds Aluminum Hudson Cylinder Head. (auction ends in less than 24 hrs. You might have to look under

completed auctions)

Got it listed for $850.00. If someone on this forum wants it, call the number in my auction and let me know.

I'll discount it quite a bit. Rather then giving some of the info on here, just check out my auction. 

Here is for the "Classifieds Rules" (hope I understood them correct).

My name is Mike XSpacekX, Zvintageracecar@aol.comZ, Number is the same as in the auction.  Seven One Four 287 30 One Four

Live in Orange California

Thanks,

Mike

Jay_G

I saw this at the Pomona Swap meet.  Looks like the top was sand blasted, so it would take a lot of polishing to make it smooth and polished again.  It has been shaved but I am unsure how much and it still has some corrosion around the water passages.  I am unsure how thick the head was and not sure how thick it is now but I don't see it as a $850 head.  I think my $600 Clifford (new in the bag) head is a better deal.  I don't think it would hold up under a high compression 7X application.  For stock you may be fine.

Jay  

ski4life65

I agree with Jay's comments. I have had a couple of these and ended up using them as wall decoration. They look cool, but I don't think they improve performance much. The last one I sold on Ebay went for $300. My suggestion is start a little lower and see where it goes.

dbarrett

Jay, my Dad is looking for a Clifford head. If yours is available please let me know..  If possible pictures would be nice. He's found a few Edmund's heads but they are usually in poor shape or priced too high. Contact info: hudson54jetliner AT yahoo.com      Thanks, David

RL Chilton

Auction has ended.  

VicTor Z

I just bought the Edmunds head. It looks good, now to get it polished. it will look good with the Edmunds intake on my '50 Comm. with a 308 Hudson motor and clifford headers. 

VicTor Z

I had the Edmunds head measured today, 1.865".  I hope this isn't a wall hanger now.  Help !

VintageRaceCar

Boy oh Boy, you guys on this site are All Knowing.

Victor bought a BEAUTIFUL head, which never had been milled, prior to me sending it out and having it machined at the professional Machine and Racing Engine Shop. (Invoice was provided to Victor)

This head was also Spot Faced on the top of the Head Bolt Washer & Water Neck / Thermostat Housing Surfaces. Therefore, to try and measure the head thickness at those locations does not give you correct specs.

Where you guys measure a head, is not how or where you measure a head. You measure the Combustion Chamber for the CC's, measure the depth of the Intake and Exhaust Valve area and if really needed you take a Sonic Tester (after calibrating it for the appropriate material ) and measure around the Combustion Chamber area.

Victor, if you measure the Valve area and compare those dimensions with a NOS head, you will find, that

this head is exactly 15 Thousands less. Just like I told you.

I have gone over 137 Mph with a Packard Straight 8 engine at Bonneville. Yes, it had a way milled down

Edmunds Head on it. Have gone over 150 Mph at El Mirage with a Flathead V8, with a 6.71 BDS Blower and stock Edelbrock heads. Making 16 lbs pounds of Boost.

Besides that, I have sold Speed Equipment for the last 25 years and know quite a bit about the quality of it.

You got a BEAUTIFUL head for a VERY CHEAP price. If you need my help with measuring or Sonic testing

let me know.

If you are not happy with it, let me know and I'll refund your money IN FULL.

Just don't start working on it and expect me to take it back after someone else screws it up.

Otherwise you own it for sure.

Give me a call anytime and don't let these "Know it All's" worry you.

Thanks,

Mike

PS: Attached are 2 pics of what the head looked like, after the head bolt/washer area was spot faced.

Before the head was sand blasted.

Kdancy

Mike, with all due respect, you as a seller, should have measured the head before it was milled. It's a used head, how do you know it has never been milled unless you owned it since new?  If so, this conversation would not be happening. The Hudson community is well aware of issues with Aluminum heads as many stock ones have been pulled off and sent to build Chinese products and before that, Japanese products. 
Why in the world would a customer pay top dollar, no, that was not a bargain price, and then turn around and pay someone to sonic test and cc the head (assuming the buyer doesn't have the capability) ?
This should have been done by the seller before putting it up for sale. That is the reason I was no longer interested in it after you answered my question about this when it was up on E-bay.
 I hope for Victor's sake that it is not a "wall hanger" but would not be surprised if it is.
 

VintageRaceCar

Nice going Lee.

As I explained to you and everybody else who asked, this head had NEVER BEEN Milled before. Reason I know that is, most 1950's Speed Equipment has certain machine markings from the original

equipment. Milling markings, which nobody used back then, except the manufacturer. This head had all those markings and further more I knew where this head had been for the last 35+ years and only became available after the gentleman passed away.

NOW, how hard is it to take a caliper and measure the depth of the Intake and exhaust Valve Pocket and compare these specs, with a NOS head ? I bet this head is as good as any other used head out there. 

Next, for you to question the price I was asking and the much lower price Victor ended up buying.

There have been several heads either been sold or listed on ebay and other places around the world within the last 5 years.

1, A friend of mine from Chicago sold a NOS head during the Hershey Swap Meet in 2012, for $1400.00.

Reason I know that as a fact, I was there. He was set up next to me in the Annex Chocolate Field.

2, A half way decent looking USED head sold for $900.00 during the Turlock, CA Swap Meet in about 2011.

Reason I know that, I was there. His space was one row over from mine. He started out at $ 1000.00 and ended up taking a $ 100.00 less. (Offered NO guarantee or refund if something was wrong with it)

3, And this one is even documented, where everybody can still look at it. The POS on ebay. Was 4 Sale on ebay for $ 999.00. Completely screwed up, corroded and had clear coat over it, completely bent and warped.

Here is the link to it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hudson-Old-Original-Edmunds-Aluminum-Cylinder-Head-6-cyl-/201486845610

So, just because you or other people may have bought or seen cheaper heads over the years, the head Victor just bought "was a good deal".

Specially after I just spent $120.00 at a professional shop, to have it Pressure Tested and Milled (at least enough, where anybody can see how straight this head is) 

 

Further more, in my above post I offered Victor the following:

"You got a BEAUTIFUL head for a VERY CHEAP price. If you need my help with measuring or Sonic testing

let me know."

Is there anywhere in this statement, that I would charge Victor for any of my help ??

He is a local guy to me and I am willing to help him measure the head properly, even CC the head for him

and maybe even help equalize all 6 combustion chambers. Yes, guys like yourself, who only know about bolting on new Clifford heads on an engine don't know these facts. I bet if you measure a new Clifford or Edmunds or anybody's Sand Cast head, where the combustion chambers are simply cast and not machined, that on a 6 cylinder head, the CC's are most likely Different by 5 to 8 CC's, between the 6 cylinders.

Victor is a neat guy and has some great cars. Hell, I may even help him, when ever he is getting ready to install the head on his 50 Com..

Mike

  

VicTor Z

Good Morning Mike, Thanks for the Good Words.  I sure will take you up on your offer, hope to put the Edmunds head on a motor that I will putting in my '42 Hudson coupe.  The coupe was almost a parts car (Years Ago), now will be with  Hudson motor with Edmunds Head and a lot of "Patina" Looking for a Edmunds intake. The Hudson People are great people. They know a lot about Hudson's. On the web site there is a slogan " Come for the cars and stay for the PEOPLE".

VicTor Z

Ol racer

Victor,
 Do not despair over the Head if bought for Show, just ensure that its flat by placing a straight edge across diagonally then check all the holes with a new gasket. Being aluminum, it can be repaired. Next measure the highest point on your Exhaust valve at wide open then check the depth into the combustion chamber 'Exh Pocket' (adding the gasket compressed thickness) to ensure clearance.. If close you could fly cut the pocket slightly but you should be fine....You a;lso could use shorter Reach S/Plugs.
Next you want to buy a BEST Brand 'PermBond' Head Gasket from 21ST Century Hudson or D.Cooper. (Permbond is more money but worth it) . You want to re torque the head (Cold) a few hot/cold cycles before leaning hard on it. I suggest, but not really necessary on a street motor) installing studs with large Grade 8 Washers. (Dorman makes a 7/16 stud correct length)

Ive never had one but feel the Edmunds head is no better performer than a Hudson head, but it looks nicer for shows. Regarding an Edmunds Intake, it will polish up far nicer than a Twin H, but it wont perform as well...Lastly, if you really want to dress up your motor, put 21 chrome Acorn nut Covers on your Head Bolts. You can buy any size you want reasonably at www.iowa80.com

VicTor Z

Thank You, Thank You, Ol Racer.  ((  " Come for the cars and stay for the PEOPLE". )) =

VicTor Z

VicTor Z said:

Thank You, Thank You, Ol Racer.  ((  " Come for the cars and stay for the PEOPLE". )) = Ol Racer

RL Chilton

I'm hesitant to get involved because I certainly don't know as much about Hudson heads as Mike, or Ol Racer, but I felt I did need to point out one very important point.  That is, the 2"-Rule applies to STOCK heads, and, for all practical purposes, has nothing to do with aftermarket products--at least to my understanding no one has ever applied that rule to same. 

 If the bolt bosses were dressed, and you (Victor) are measuring the thickness at that particular point, it has little to do with the integrity of the rest of the head.  Mike is correct in pointing out that, "You measure the Combustion Chamber for the CC's, measure the depth of the Intake and Exhaust Valve area and if really needed you take a Sonic Tester (after calibrating it for the appropriate material ) and measure around the Combustion Chamber area."

Keep in mind, the 2" Rule is just an easy check to make sure that (basically) 2 things happen:  

1.  That there is enough clearance so that valves don't bang into the head on their opening, and

2.  There is sufficient mass in the head to prevent warpage.

In an aftermarket head, one only needs to ascertain the two above rules apply.  Aluminum heads are always going to be prone to warpage (more than cast iron, or other harder material).  Therefore, if you have the clearance, then you should be good.  After all, especially in a Flathead, decreasing your combustion chamber is directly proportional to increasing power.  

Victor, I would drill that puppy out, put in 1/2" studs, bolt it on and try it out.  The proof is in the pudding and at the end of the day, it's not that big of a deal to swap out heads if you don't like it.  Re-sell it if necessary and chalk it up to experience.  However, on the other hand, if it performs well, the cool factor is unbeatable.  Please keep us abreast of what you decide to do.  CC'ing the head and ESPECIALLY equalizing the combustion chambers is a plus.  

Mike, thank you for taking the time to post here and to give us insight into this unique piece of Hudson hardware.  

VicTor Z

Thank You Russell and all for the great input on this Edmunds Head. I will keep you abreast of the progress.  Looks like I need to sell more window channeling.

VicTor 

Glowplug

Brother "Z" is NO stranger to edmunds heads. His 308 powered 54 coupe sports an example too. If memory serves me faithfully, the head was purchased from eBay too. The origin was way back when Gus Susza 54 club sedan that came to TX when Jim Guinn bought it. kEn U polished the head for Jim and then it got to Z. Stuff gets around.

VicTor Z

Brother "C" what a memory you have, oh yes, you young guys. Take care my friend. Say hi to your best friend!

VicTor Z

Glowplug

Brother Z glad to be the history keeper. Told best friend you said hi...and she sends same to you and family. Good luck with the 42 buddy!

Glowplug

Brother Zs coupe engine pictures...

RL Chilton

That's sweet, Victor!

VicTor Z

WOW! Yes a Blast from the past. I still have the finned coil and heater water tube. Just found them, they were in a safe place, that I didn't remember. I was talked out of having the Edmunds intake and the 350 carbs replaced with a Clifford intake and Edelbrock four barrel . I was told the the 350 carbs was to much gas for the motor. I ended up putting Edmunds intake on my '50 comm with a 308 motor. Well I ended up getting 7.9 MPG..

Kdancy

Victor, where did you purchase the transmission adaptor plate from? How did you like the fit? Starter come with it?

VicTor Z

Hi Kdancy, the adapter had to be modified to clear the steering  arm . The pic that Brother "C" posted was before the modification . Ken had the last name correct, it was his brother "Danny'. Yes the starter came with the adapter.