stepdown vent window gears

RonS

Where do you guys get the small gears that operate the vent window on the Hornets. The gear in my Passenger side striped out. I had a couple of repops for quite some time, and drilled out the rivets and replaced the gear. The slightest resistance, when the glass frame  was sliding over  the seal, caused two teeth to snap off. The second one did the same thing. What's up with that? The repops were way lighter than the original.  Any way I need two, or 4 (Murphys Law), I know Eshelmans sells 'em, But I think that is where I got the ones I had. 

RonS

Thanks Ken. Has anyone had the problem with easily broken teeth? These gears are way too fragile.

Glowplug

In a pinch the OEM gears can be removed turned over and used. This fix does not allow the window to open fully but will allow it to open and close securely.

JFromm

I have a complete working unit. Check your private messages.

RonS

They are a white metal of some alloy. I really don't know where I got them. It was quite a while. The gear is softer then the worm, so it wears first. I will try flipping the gear and see what happens.

RonS

That didn't work! Al S. told me that it is important to close the vent wings by squeezing ( assisting)the glass closed over the weatherstrip while gently turning the crank clockwise.  Do not  use ONLY the crank handle to overcome the resistance, or the teeth will break off for sure.  I confirmed that THEY DO! I will inquire on the cost of making a gear in a more durable metal... brass?

Glowplug

Old Forum post by Dave Sollon, 1999 - Ken Shulte had some brass gears made and at the time some for sale... might find some or not... at least Ken maybe able to focus any remanufacturing ideas with a company that did it successfully.

RonS

Wow, Ken!  That is really over my pay grade. I see on the internet that if I send one to a machine shop then they can copy it in a durable material... Bronze? Al said brass. I'll get to it next week. Any idea what  I should expect to pay?

RL Chilton

Ron-

Like all of these small run projects, and if you decide to follow through on a production run, you could probably sell 30 or 40 gears just on our forums if the price was reasonable.  You can re-coup your costs or even pay yourself a little for your time with a small run.  If you are patient and work it over a couple of years, you could probably sell 100 gears.  Just a guess, that's only 50 stepdowns, maybe more.  I believe there are plenty of folks who are willing to pay for better, quality parts.  A good bronze gear would last . . . forever, really-- at least the life of the car even if it made another 70 years.  

RonS

That has crossed my mind. I ordered a couple of Greg Eshelmans gears, but I only want to see what it will cost to reproduce them in bronze. I tend to believe that selling enough of them to off set my costs my be too optimistic. Again, it does depend on   the run cost. Also, what is a fair price to ask for the bronze gear? I mean, why wouldn't Greg do that, instead of making them in potmetal? I am going next week to a couple of shops to follow up on costs.

RL Chilton

There's a lot of good questions, there, that's for sure.  The originals were potmetal, or maybe aluminum and they were re-popped the same for the same reasons as originally, cost.  Hudson didn't design them to last 65 years, more like 5-7, which was the industry standard, so, o.k., Hudson probably planned for 10-15 in reality.  That's still not 65 years by a stretch.

FWIW, I'd be interested in at least a set, if not a couple.  

onerare39

Ron,

I would be interested in a set also.

I have an old unused set that I got with one of my vehicles.  I can mail them to you if it would help the process along.  I'll pull them out and take a photo first.

John Forkner  

Kdancy

Ron, put me down for a set. Maybe more depending on price.

RonS

Great guys! I have a couple of shops here in Tucson that can modify an existing stock gear. I'm going to one tomorrow.  Rushgears.com , Great. John I have another assembly, but I will need one for the driver door soon as well. I can use one of Eshelmans gears as a pattern for the machine shop. This should not be too difficult with a stock gear available. Ken there are two suppliers in Tucson for Motion Industries. You said that they sell right hand gears. I'm going to stop there and see if they have left hand sprockets. Saves the shipping.

RonS

Not so great guys. Rushgears want a minimum of $1700 for a set up. Then a price per gear. This is for a stock part number. What the heck is a set up for, if they are stock? I did get a guy here in Tucson that will modify the Stock part to fit the square shaft end, and remove a few teeth to conform to the half moon design of the gear teeth. But, why would I modify a stock part a still pay  a set up charge as if the gear was a new design ? Might as well send them one of  Eshelmans and tell 'em " copy this in bronze".   I guess they're waiting for a contract from Ford for 9 million. Same thing from Motion Industries... Ken, I have to question the stock price of $37.75. Do they need to set up for the same part on every order of a stock part? If any of you can find a company that sells stock  catalog gears with out a set up/minimum let me know. I can modify a stock gear.

onerare39

Here's what I found.  I don't think they are much good for a pattern. They look to be sand cast, maybe Zamak alloy.  They are both the same, don't know if they are left or right.

RonS

John, The issue is that a right hand worm gear is in stock for less then $40. But, a left hand is a custom make. The photo on the right is a left hand. I have a couple of tricks. One being taking a right hand(RH) and cutting each gear on an angle to make it a flat on center. It appears that the teeth are 10 degrees in the wrong angle. Now, the worm only needs to turn about 7-8 teeth back and forth. I may be able to get away with it. The gear in question, a Martin 1620 or Boston Gear G1042 are bronze, and hopefully strong enough to withstand some removal of material. Hudsons use the same gear in both sides. Of course, these gears have 20 teeth 360 around 10 of them must be removed to turn from stop to stop. Then the center shaft is square on the assembly as seen in your photos. However, the gears from Martin/Boston Gear are round so a 3/8" square must be drilled/honed to accept the Hudson shaft. PITA. Got Greggs potmetal gears today. I had to file the square hole to get them to fit over the shaft.  Good Grief!

RonS

That is right ,Ken. And no one has 'em in stock, unless you can find some one. I will fool around with this some more. I am ordering a right hand and see what I can do with it. If one of our members finds a company that has the left side available, I have a shop that can modify it to our needs for a very fair price.

RonS

That's what the guy here is going to do. But the left hand  gear is the issue. Motion Industries want $800 to set up a lefty. Not cost effective.

RonS

I wish that I know if can withstand stress, and what it is made out of. I will give them a call. I installed Greggs and it works ok if you pinch the glass closed.

Lee ODell

Ken, good tip. Thank you. Lee O'Dell

RonS

Well, I have discovered that the 1941-1948 Ford/Mercury vent window gear, that Ken U-Tx suggested on a private message, is the same as the Hudson. It is a perfect fit, and is aluminum from billet stock. I was able to close the window tightly without having to use my fingers to "pinch" the glass into the seal. The gear tooth did not break off under stress.  However, I still am a bit paranoid and help the crank anyway. If any of you are interested, I purchased the vent window crank gear from the Early Ford Store of California, in SanDimas. John, was very helpful by describing the part to me in detail.  Part # is11A-7023402-GR the cost is $35. I'm not attempting to profit by this. I am glad that the members on this forum share their knowledge so generously. This way we can keep our cars running well for some more time. Good luck, Ron

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Wow! Great info find! Do you know if they are L & R handed?

It's always a good idea to assist that mechanism by using two hands for operation....one on the glass itself. I can still hear my Dad yelling "leave those danged thing alone!" Even the non hand-cranked versions should be done that way (I have the whole family trained) so as not to bend the vent window frame away from the glass when closing...........it never goes back, leaving the window loose forever.

Thanks,

F 

RonS

The gears are the same left or right. See the part # BO 211732. Plus, I tried it it both sides. The ones that Gregg E sells are way improved over the POS that I had on my shelf for years. However, the solid stock aluminum, IMO, is more durable. I agree with your dad, the only time I close my vents is when I wash the car, or get caught in the rain. Problem occurred a couple of weeks ago, when, while driving to a car show, my friend  cranked the vent closed, and like magic, the crank turned without doing anything.

50ClubCoupe

Wow, big kudos to both of you guys for putting together the above information.  I may need a gear in the near future and this was very helpful.  In addition to the Early Ford Store, I found them on Mac's Model A catalog site (http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_mercury_early/vent-window-gear-repair-kit-mercury.html) as well.  Same price, $35 but it includes a some rivets and a spring...not sure if any of the extra pieces are usable but probably not.

RonS

Ken spotted one of these on a website. The gear looked the same, but who knows the proportions, especially if you actually see a 48 Ford vent mechanism. It is a real alien thing compared to a stepdown. Ken what made you think that these would work? I held one of Eshelmans in my hand while I asked the counter man, John, if he could bear with me and proceeded to measure numerous areas. It is rare for a sales counter man to be so patient and accommodating. Re. the rivets and spring... you won't need 'em. The Ford does, however. Shipping from California to Az was only $3.95, vs the other vendors. And again, they went above & beyond  to help me out.

RonS

Interesting. I always felt that small companies like Hudson designed operating units around what was available from other manufacturers. So, if the gear was available Hudson built a mechanism around it. Question would be if the gear was the same overall size, not 10% larger in the photo. That I could only guess at... but, my original idea of buying "parts off the floor" held true. Nice job Ken.

48Sed

Great work you guys,thats what makes this site interesting and helpful.