just thinking out loud - have a chance for a running chevy 250 driveline for a very nominal price

jrenda

hi all,

As I slowly make progress on the major aspects - currently cleaning out the interior and fixing a bit of rust in the drivers floor of the 48 Hudson - I like to think about the "next" stage.  

There is a running 60s Chevy 250 inline 6 with column-shift 3 speed trans available for short money - as in less than the cost of a new clutch for the original trans.

There are numerous factors at play with my car: most notably is that it must run and drive (even just enough to move from out of the garage) as the better half wants to revamp the yard and I will lose car access to the garage in a few short weeks.   I simply don't have time to rebuild the stock engine if it is beyond a day or 2 of tinkering to get running.  I also don't want to reinvent the wheel or do some drastic surgery on the Hudson.  Instead I'd like to consider a feasible and the least-intrusive driveline swap so that I can then rebuild the original 8 cylinder in the winter and not have destroyed the originality of the car.

I know people have put all sorts of engines into the Hudsons.  I know my trans is stuck from sitting for 50+ years. I am going to do a full rewire of the car to 12volts.  

I guess what I am asking is how feasible is it to prop a 250 6 banger in there for a season or 2 while rebuilding the stock components.  The cost of the chevy stuff  is low enough where I can either resell it to recoup some cash or eat the cash and just consider it part of the overall car costs.  I've done engine/driveline swaps before and in my head I am feeling like I could accomplish that more quickly than rebuilding the original driveline?

I don't need to make any decisions today, just trying to keep an overall plan in place. Nect week I am moving on to brakes, then it's wiring and seeing if the stock engine will fire.  

thanks again all

 - jason

coverton

Ol stove bolt six is aclassic itself n I would not be ashamed Run one in my nova n can't kill it

50C8DAN

You have a fairly rare car a top of the line '48 Commodore coupe with a H8 engine.  If I were you i would not change out the drivetrain.  Changing out the engine and trans will take far more effort than you think and it will be more money than just the price of the engine and trans.  The H8 is a smooth and quiet engine with plenty of torque.  If all you need is the clutch plate that will save you a lot in the long run.

Jon B

My take on this: I agree with Dan; it will take a bit of doing to adapt another engine / transmission to fit your car, even if others have done it. And you'll then have another engine / transmission lying around.

On the other hand, Hudson Eights require a bit of "doing" to rebuild correctly, especially for the Hudson novice.

I still think that the best answer would be to get a Hudson six, especially if you can get one with a working clutch and transmission (i.e., one taken from a perfectly good car, by a street rodder).  That engine was meant to interchange between various models of Hudson, so an easy "fit".

All you have to do is find one, of course.  But they're out there.  Here's a fellow who has one right now, listed here at the forum for $400:  http://openforum.hetclub.org/discussion/168530/262-engine-and-trans-for-sale#latest

(He's in Louisiana, however, and I don't even have to ask your location:it's probably 2,000 miles away!!)

Keep combing the internet.  Have you had the chance to meet any Hudson people near you (like, at a Chapter meet)?  Tapping into the "network" is the best way of discovering nearby cars and parts that most people know anything about.  The Internet works great....up to a point.  But, getting out there and "asking around" will work even better!

50C8DAN

My C8 was a garage find, had not run in over 20 years.  I did pull the engine and took it to the machine shop.  Luckily I got the owner who was in his 70s at the time and was familiar with Hudsons.  All that I did was have it cleaned and new cam bearing were installed, and had to replace one exhaust valve that was burned (#8) and that was it.  It was in really good shape considering and did not need a rebuild, even used the original main bearings and it still runs great and does not use any oil.

jrenda

thank you all,

I am sincerely hoping I get "lucky" and find that to get the 8 to run will take minimal resources.  I am simply trying to plan for Options B and C if that is not the case.  

I still have a week plus to get to that part, after doing brakes etc.  Will keep all posted.

In the meantime I will search for things to do when trying to start an engine that has sat for 50 plus years!!

Jon B

I can't recall: did anyone advise you to drop the oil pan and clean it out, before attempting to start this thing?  New gaskets are available from Hudson vendors.  You want to get the muck out.  And it wouldn't hurt to hook your gas line to a gas can with new gas in it, as opposed to pulling all the bad gas and junk through the lines going back to the car's tank.  When replacing the pan, do not fail to fill the upper (dipper) tray with oil.  We had an instance recently of a "modern" car shop doing engine work on a 1930 Hudson, and replacing the upper try "dry" (through ignorance).  Within a few minutes, all 8 rod bearings were ruined.

Also, it is quite probable that some if not all of the valves will have gotten stuck during their long period of inactivity.  You can pull off the valve covers to observe the action, and maybe shoot some penetrating oil up the valve guides in order to free the stems....but a head removal may be required.  Of course, with a stuck valve you'll have zero compression and the engine will not start, but maybe they won't be stuck!

Kdancy

Jason, once you start down that road (swapping a different make of engine and trans) there is hardly ever any turning back. There is more involved with the swap then you might think. The engine especially, is the heart and soul of a Hudson. See if there are any club members in your area that might be able to help out with getting the 8 running. That is a unique engine and worthy to get running if you can. The second best option I agree, is a Hudson 262, very good engines and should be able to locate one that is in your price range.

Per

Jason, I recently got a '51 8 cylinder engine that had not run since the 1960s. I took off the oil pans (outer pan that looks like an ordinary oil pan, and the inner pan, which is rather flat, but has a trough located beneath each connecting rod). The oil in these troughs had jelled to a kind of paste. This engine is oiled by gravity feed. If I had simply started the engine, the passageways to the main bearings would have gotten plugged up. Draining the oil out of the drain plug only empties what is in the oil pan, but does not empty the tray. To take the oil pan off your engine without removing the engine from the car, the easiest way is to lower the front frame crossmember a few inches. Get six six-inch long bolts that are the same diameter and thread as the bolts that hold the front frame crossmember to the rest of the frame. There are five bolts at each end of the crossmember. Remove one bolt to use as a sample. Be sure the bolts are not threaded for their whole length. Support the car under the frame. Remove the three bolts that connect the center steering arm bracket to the crossmember, and move it out of the way, so you can put a jack under the middle of the crossmember. Raise the jack so it is gently supporting the crossmember. Remove three bolts from each end of the crossmember (you removed one of these already). Install three long bolts where you removed the short bolts. Unscrew the remaining two bolts from the ends of the crossmember. slowly let the jack come down. The crossmember will be sliding down the bolts (smoothly, since there are no threads). With the crossmember lowered, it is easy to reach all the oil pan bolts, and there is enough space to comfortably deal with the front part of the bottom of the engine. Per

Per

Jason, When you talk about your transmission, I think that you mean the clutch is not disengaging when you push the pedal down and try to turn a jacked up rear wheel when the car is in gear. It is usually possible to unstick these clutches, since the flywheel, pressure plate, and disk have been protected all these years inside the clutch housing. If you look around on the HET forum, you can find discussions about various ways to get it unstuck. These can be done as soon as the engine can turn. In the meantime, you can prop the clutch pedal all the way down. As soon as you get the engine to turn, you can drain the clutch, and put in automatic transmission fluid or whatever mixture of fluids you see that various people recommend to flush the clutch. In what town do you live?...Per

Glowplug

Per- I am happy to see your post about using the bolts to drop the cross member. This is the method I used to R&R cracked piston from 308 and repaired oil pickup.

50C8DAN

I agree with the guys on the H8 restart.   I should have been more detailed in my comments earlier. One of the reasons I pulled my engine was when I pulled the pan a big glob of sludge came out, congealed oil!  If I had even drained the pan and put in new oil this crud would have killed my engine.  So taking it apart and having it tanked at the machine shop was the best way to go for me.  Then reassembled with almost all of the original parts.  I did have the crank, bores, etc. checked at the shop and they said everything was in spec.

SuperDave

I recently had a 51 pacemaker in the shop with a Cheby 250.. Don't do it!  Lots of conflicts. Stick with any Hudson engine.

Jon B

Jason wants to get his Hudson back on the road without spending a fortune, or a year's worth of time.

If I'm reading our suggestions to him, correctly:

1. Yes, you can substitute a Brand X engine but it may be more involved than you think.

2. A Hudson six would be an easier swap if you could find one in decent operating condition. (I suggest joining the H.A.M.B. website and posting your need for a running six cyl. Hudson engine.  Might be someone out there who yanked the running engine out of his "project Hudson" and never even considered anyone might want it.)

3. But first, why not try to fire the Eight up -- it might actually run okay.  First, you ought to remove the pan(s) to clean out the sludge which involves a bit of "doing" (see Per's suggestions).  Also, you might want to verify that that the valves are horribly burned or stuck open, but either pulling the valve champer covers and watching the stems go up and down, or just taking a compression check.  Assuming the studge is out, valves are operational (and by maybe using some "new" gas instead of whatever is in your tank): "Fire away" and see what happens.  If the engine runs pretty well (maybe needing a some valves or other minor things) you can go ahead with the Eight.  If it can't be started, continue with plan (1) or (2).

4. As to the sticking clutch, I think we all pretty much agree that you can probably unstick it without a clutch-ectomy.  (I don't recall whether the transmission's okay but not, they're out there.)

Anyway, a lot has been suggested here, and I thought I'd just summarize it for Jason's benefit!

hudshornet

Jason,

Did you see this post in the 34 Hudson Straight 8 Power Dome w/Trans - For Sale Thread started by Dhawkins?  Its the last post.  

 "powerdome 8, Are you still looking for an engine? I have a 1947 8 which I bought with the intention of putting it in a 1949. I found that it would be difficult. The engine was taken from a running car years ago. I took off the head to get a couple of stuck valves working, and bought a new head gasket. Its cylinders and valves look fine. I paid $500 and would be happy to sell it for that. I am in Boston, MA." 

jrenda

thanks all!!

i do appreciate the input.  the plan is as #3 in Jon's list.  do as per suggests, clean it and give it a whirl.  

- jason

jrenda

thanks so much hudsonhornet - I just pinged Per.

Jon B

A fellow is offering his running 202 for sale but (since that's for a Jet) I don't know if it will work in a StepDown.  http://openforum.hetclub.org/discussion/168840/55-hudson-wasp-parts#latest  It's in N.C., I forget where you live.

Sounds like you had a chance at a running 262, anyway.

Jon B

Here's a Hudson engine that just popped up on Ebay.

It SAYS it's for a Terraplane but looks too new, too me.  The seller SAYS it runs.  (Well, the price is right!)

It's in Idaho.  I can't recall where you live.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hudson-Engine-/282067182126?hash=item41ac83a22e:g:ENUAAOSwzJ5XVj9d&vxp=mtr

46HudsonPU

It appears to be a 262, probably from a stepdown, and the transmission with it is a 3-speed (no O/D). 

Looks like a good buy for the $$...