28 Essex Super Six fuel Pump

blaine

My 28 Super Six has an electric fuel pump, a pressure regulator, an additional valve between the pressure regulator and carb, and a Tillotson carb. I purchased the correct carb from Alistair and I have the original vacuum pump. I plan to eventually install both. But for now I am trying to get the car running properly so I can drive it. The pressure regulator starves the carb at 1 1/2 psi and overflows the carb at 2 psi. I am using the additional valve to tweak the pressure to go somewhere in between, but it is very finicky. My two questions are: is there a good argument to not use the original vacuum setup? And does anyone have a suggestion for a better configuration for the electric setup?

ESSX28-1

Originally the Stewart Vacuum Tank gravity fed a Detroit Lubricator "25" carb.
This combination works well & I much prefer the Detroit Lubricator "25" carb.to it's successor Marvel carb.
Possible Greater economy is the only reason I can think of not to use them. Once they are set up correctly you very rarely need to adjust them.

Dave Y  - 28 Essex Coupe
New Zealand

Geoff

I purchased my car 60 years ago, and have done half a million miles in it (1928 Essex).  In that time the vacuum tank has failed  once.  Try getting that sort of performance out of any type of electric or mechanical pump.  Only slight drawback is on an extremely long hill when pulling hard in top gear the tank may run dry, in which case you only need to stop and leave the engine idling for a few minutes and you are on your way again.  One notorious hill near here is nine miles up one side and 7 down, with a corner for every day of the year.  I can get to within half a mile of the top, either side, in top gear before the vacuum tank runs dry.  I now know to change down to second gear before that point.   Arguments  against the electric pump is too much pressure causes carburetor to flood.  Perhaps the ideal is to run  the  vacuum tank with the auxilary pump to supply fuel in harder driving.    Good luck,

Geoff 

blaine

Thank you both for the feedback! As soon as this heat wave stops, I will be driving my car for the first time!

blaine

Well... I drove my car for the first time! It was quite an experience. Before venturing out beyond my block, I'd like to get some feedback on the following. At what temperature range should the engine typically run? And what temperature is too hot? It got up to 180 on my second trip around the block. That seems to be on the upper end of the gauge. Perhaps it impacted the the outside temperature (~90f). Do the gears typically grind (a bit) with a well operating clutch? I get minor resistance during typical up shifting. But I get fairly severe grinding when down shifting. My oil gauge seems to be stuck on 2. I'm guessing it's broken? I painted the gas tank with engine paint. When I first ran the car there seemed to be smoke hovering around the tank and tailpipe. Do you recommend wrapping the tailpipe with insulation so it isn't cooking the gas tank? Sorry for overwhelming you all with questions. I am so excited to be driving the car. My next project is to figure out why the generator doesn't seem to be charging the battery and to determine why the horn doesn't work. Also, I have oil dripping from every drain plug under the car. Guess I need some thread sealant.

ernie28

Well done on now being mobile! A great thrill I can relate to.

The temp gauge on my car sits around the 200 mark. As long as it is not boiling and loosing water all should be OK. The radiator will find its own level. I very seldom ever have to add water.

The oil gauge only indicates that the pump is circulating. At 2-3lbs it is fine. Some have been known to try and increase the pressure thinking it will be better but it can just ruin the gauge and put excess pressure and wear on the pump drive components. 

Second gear is typically noisy. Use a good oil (I use Penrite Transoil 140). If it is seriously bad maybe some work may be needed on the lay shaft and bushings but generally they will go for years.

The gear changes you will adapt to. Don't rush the up changes, double-d-clutch without touching the accelerator as the engine and input shaft need to drop revs to meet the gear you are selecting. Also to change down you must double-d-clutch to get the engine revs up to where they need to be for the lower gear. Don't labour the engine under strain and also don't over rev. Treat with the respect any 90 year old should be and it should serve you well.

If you have an air gap, say 1-2", between the tail pipe and gas tank it should be fine. Maybe it was just paint on the pipe burning off?

Be carful with sealants. The last thing you want is to get drops in the oil so use sparingly. I use Molykote 111 (is a silicone grease designed for o'rings etc) on all gaskets and drain plug threads. It seals well, stays soft and makes things easy to remove at a later date, withstands high temps and has worked well for me for years.

Good luck and happy motoring

blaine

Thank you for the detailed response. The oil gauge shows 2 even when the car is off. Is that expected? I'm concerned about the oil pressure because I had to remove the oil pump to replace its gasket.

ernie28

No, the gauge should definitely drop to zero. There must be an outfit locally who could check and fix the gauge for you?

Did you check the pump manually when you had it off to ensure it was working? It has two sets of ball bearings (top and bottom) that are the valves and these need to be there and doing their job. They are things that are easily lost or overlooked.

blaine

Not sure if there is a local outfit to inspect the gauge. I'll have to start looking. I didn't check the pump manually. To be honest I wasn't sure how to. I believe, with Geoff's help, I was able to get the bearings back in the right place.

ernie28

If you want to test while it is in the car, take off the outlet pipe that goes to the front engine plate and connect a piece of other pipe or just move the outlet pipe (without bending it) so you can have any oil empty into a container. Then just crank the starter for a bit with ignition off and see if any oil comes out.

Good luck

blaine

I will give that a try. In the meantime, my generator isn't charging the battery. I checked the voltage at the battery with the car running and it stays at about 6.14. It doesn't change when I rev the engine. On the wire leading from the relay or voltage regulator on the generator to the ammeter I get a constant 5.95. On the other side of the relay going to the generator it jumps around from 24-27. Do you think the relay is bad?

blaine

Forgot to mention the ammeter is either 0 or down in the discharge area.

blaine

I cranked the engine with the outlet pipe that goes to the front engine plate disconnected. No oil came out. Before I take the oil pump off and ruin my beautiful gasket, any other suggestions?

Geoff

This pump is very low geared and will not pump continuously, as it is a single-acting plunger driven off a cam.  You would have to wind the engine over for quite a while to get a pulse of oil out the delivery.    I suggest you take it off  and work it manually and see if it is working.  Or alternatively, you may have to prime the pump first.  You do this by removing the hexagonal cap and the spring loaded piston, and the top balls and fill the pump with oil. (You can't get any oil into  t he pump without taking the balls out).      Be very careful that you get the two balls each  top and bottom, as the pump will not work without these.  As a precaution, I would recommend that you remove the front tappet cover and pour a pint of oil in through the holes in the chamber, so the troughs are full before running the motor.   Good luck,

Geoff 

blaine

Before reading your response I ran the motor for a short time (trying to test the generator after cleaning the contacts in the relay). After I shut off the motor I removed the outlet pipe going to the front case. Some oil dripped out and the outlet was full to the top. Do you think it safe to assume it's pumping? Or should I continue with your suggestions?

Geoff

Try running the motor for a brief period, ( half a minute)  with the top pipe disconnected, this should pump oil out at idle about every 3 seconds or so.  If it doesn't then you have to take further action as recommended.

Geoff 

blaine

I removed the oil pump. The plunger was a bit stuck. I worked it manually for a while until it was moving freely. However, after reinstalling the oil pump it still doesn't pump oil. I'm starting to wonder if I bent the suction pipe when I installed the oil pan.

blaine

Before removing the oil pan, I plan to try Geoff's suggestion to prime the pump. Before I do that I just want to confirm that I can remove the plunger from the top cap? It moves freely, but I wasn't sure if it was supposed to come out. So I didn't tug on it very hard to try to get it out.

ernie28

The top plunger should come out easily - remove the brass cap and spring then use long nose pliers grab the plunger neck and lift out. It should move up and down freely. You can use a magnet to get the ball bearings out for priming.

blaine

I primed the oil pump, started the engine, and... success... oil pumped out... and the it stopped. That made me believe oil wasn't getting to the pump. So I checked the lower line going to the oil pan. It was clear. So I tried to suck oil up through the suction pipe... nothing but air. There is definitely oil in the tank. I'm pretty sure the problem must be that I bent the suction pipe up when I reinstalled the oil pan. Guess I'll need another gasket... sigh.

ernie28

Certainly seems like the pipe into the sump. Depending on what may have been put on the gasket when the sump was installed you may find that the gasket my be reusable.

blaine

Yeah... I won't make that mistake again...