how to install new cork gaskets for oil trays

jrenda

well i got both the oil pan and the dipper tray cleaned out.  there was almost zero sludge in the dipper tray!  i ordered new gaskets from 21st century hudson and they came in 2 days.  going to install them tomorrow but realized there are no holes in them like the originals.  Am i to drill 34 holes as the originals had or do i drill a couple and then simply let the torque of installing the 5/16 bolts sort of make their own holes?  sorry its a newbie question but i dont want to destroy the new gaskets!

thanks all

- jason

jrenda

ps while im at it - what is the recommendation for any type of sealer?  and on 1  or both sides?  I wish the gaskets had been the regular type not the cork style.  I am considering ordering those and just holding off.  

Geoff

YOU must punch the holes with a 5/16" hole punch, including the oil drain hole at the centre back, most important.  I prefer to use sealant on the  bottom side of the top gasket only, then it is easier to  remove the sump.  Be careful that you do not use too much silicone compound, as it can squish out in globs, detach, and block off the bearing holes, causing great damage.  Also it can block off the oil drain hole at the rear, and cause a massive oil leak out the back of the main bearing.

Geoff 

Jon B

No holes?  THAT's interesting!  Wasn't aware they come that way, nowadays!  One way I heard (Geoff, you can comment on this!) would be to temporarily adhere the gasket to the underside of the block, in its exact location.  Then take a round head bolt and hold the head against the gasket (centered on where the hole is suspected to be, beneath it), with the shank of the bolt hanging down.  Then pound on the shank with a hammer.  This forces the round head through the gasket material until the head bottoms out in the hole.  Which will then cut off the gasket in a round pattern.  Larger holes require larger diameter round heads.

barrysweet52

Im surprised that there are no holes as well. You should ring the supplier to ask. Easy to damage a gasket when you have to punch so many holes. I was lazy once and ordered a set of gaskets instead of making a set. When they arrived they were the thin black paper gasket type. I never used them as my preference is the new thick cork type. Be aware that the cork gaskets that you find in the old original kits are often perished. There is nothing like the sound of a motor running after you have done some work on it. Happy motoring, Barry

jrenda

thanks all,  The only thing I can think of since I have both pans off would be too firmly align the gaskets and try to punch the holes. 

to be honest I am a bit disappointed.  Not in the supplier as they had them here in 2 days and only shipped what I ordered.  I just wish I knew that the gaskets would require 34 holes to be made on each gasket for a total of 78 - plus the oil drain hole.  The odds are just too great that I'll not get them all right and will have to redo the hours of work needed to lower the crossmember and get all the bolts out. I was hoping to have the pans installed this weekend and planned on taking Tues off to see if I could get her to turn over.  I'll call the supplier and see if there is a substitute, if not I'll have to order the black fibrous ones.   

I appreciate the insight.

Jon B

If indeed you discover that the gaskets only come without holes, you might want to check with other suppliers -- it's possible that others come pre-punched.  If you find the punched ones, keep the gaskets you already have, and trace the holes from the "punched" to the "un-punched" gaskets, for later punching.  Guaranteed, you'll use a second pair of gaskets when you next drop your pan, so it's always good to have a spare set.

I have used the thin, "fibrous" ones on my '37 for years with no leakage.

Just be very careful using silicone (best not to use it at all).  That stuff has a way of migrating into your engine.  A couple years ago when my pan was dropped, I found all sorts of tiny bits of silicone throughout the inside of the engine.  In the past, someone used this stuff somewhere around the engine,  a very dangerous situation.

I don't know all the suppliers who sell these, but here are a couple (with apologies to the others, whose name I cannot think of at the moment!).  Be sure to get the O-ring too, if it pertains to your engine:

http://www.wrphet.com/engine.html -- they carry the six cyl. gaskets, may have the 8's as well -- I'll bet they do.    In Shelbyville, Ind. 

http://www.hudsonmotorcarco.com/   In Cincinnati, Ohio
 

 

jrenda

well, as usual the problem was one of my own creation,  The gaskets did in fact have holes punched - the cork was pretty thick so i simply lined the gaskets over the dipper tray and       punched them out.

I tried to be sure to say that this in no way was an error on 21st Century and that they had in fact even had the items delivered in 2 days.  If my own idiocy caused a poor reflection upon them I truly apologize.  The error was all mine and had literally zero to do with them.

Sorry for the confusion. Tomorrow is attempt #1 to install both pans,  

Jon B

I'm sorry, but I'm confused.

You said that the holes were in fact punched in the cork.

Then you said that you simply lined the cork up with the holes in the dipper tray and punched the holes.

Did you have to punch them, or were they already in the gasket?

jrenda

yes i may wait to enlist the help of someone.  Or possibly line up 6-8 longer bolts to secure the empty pans in place then ad the oil and use a jack with a piece of wood to aid in lifting it into place.

Sorry for the confusion regarding the gaskets.  The cork was thick and so the indents for the punch-outs was not visible to me.  So i lined up the gaskets (assuming i was going to have to punch my own holes) and when i started, as i pushed down i noticed the little circle cutouts (punches) popped through.  I hope that makes some sense.  The outline of the punches in the cork was very faint so i simply didn't see them and assumed, wrongly, that there weren't any.

Thank you for all the assistance.  The irony is that the dipper tray was pretty darn clean anyway lol!!!  But good to be sure.

- jason

Jon B

"Hanging chads" as it were!  (You have to be of a certain age to know what that means...)

Maybe the manufacturer felt that the cork would be stronger (for shipping) if the punched-out material was left in place.

bob ward

jrenda said:

yes i may wait to enlist the help of someone.  Or possibly line up 6-8 longer bolts to secure the empty pans in place then ad the oil and use a jack with a piece of wood to aid in lifting it into place.

- jason

You are on the right track there to DIY the oil pan install, you also need a length of 5/16 UNC all thread cut into 4 appropriate lengths and nuts to match. I've used this method successfully.

I'm quite sure that Hudson didn't mess around with oil filled dipper trays on the engine assembly line, they had a simple method of filling the dipper trays and sump after the engines were completed.

I reckon their method would have been as simple as a stick that slipped into the filler tube, said stick having a foot on it that blocked the opening into the sump. When oil is poured down the filler tube it floods the dipper tray before eventually finding its way into the oil pan.

I'll put one on my list of things to make.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

For what it's worth, I wouldn't risk the mess trying to install the pan/tray assembly with oil in it.....I know what would happen. Install it dry, then pour a couple of quarts of oil into the tappet chambers, one front, one rear. It will drain into the tray through the chamber-floor drains and fill the tray. It will also run onto the cam and down the crankcase wall into the main/cam brg. feed troughs. I have "installed" all of the required oil volume by this method but it overfills the tray by about 2 quarts (in a six). I'm sure it would reach equilibrium with the reservoir level in short order after initial start-up but I've changed my approach to just 2 quarts.

This also allows you to install the pan/tray while the engine is inverted, as on a rotating stand.....much easier and cleaner. Pressure-pot delivery is preferred (288, 289), but not always available. 

F