0 compression in cylinder 4. 55psi in cyl 3. 128 in cyl 6. rest are between 90-110.

jrenda

ran a compression check last night as best i could.  here are the findings.  

when looking at engine from front of car i noted cyl 1 as the first with cyl 8 being closest to firewall.  here are the readings, all tests done dry with no ignition hooked up, all plugs removed, and the air cleaner removed with the carb linkage opened full and held open with some zip ties (it's just me doing this).

cyl 1 - 2 tests 85/90psi

cyl 2 - 110 psi

cyl 3 - 55psi

cyl 4 - 0 psi (tested 3 times)

cyl 5 - 110 psi

cyl 6 - 128 psi (tested twice)

cyl 7 - 100 psi

cyl 8 - 95 psi

After tons of reading I am left with the general consensus that its a stuck valve, a hole in the piston, or any number of other things.  I'm a bit bummed but not angry.  Time to learn to check the valves etc.  

lostmind

You may be able to reach the top of the valve through the spark plug hole.

Spray solvent that will dissolve  petrol byproducts and corrosion around the valves.

Use an offset tool to pry the valve down.

You can also remove the side covers over the valve spring and pry down on the valve.

It's usually the exhaust valve that sticks.

That engine should run on the other cylinders. Get it started and run solvent down through the carb , should the trick. 

Park_W

Unless the head gasket is blown between cyl's 3 and 4.

SuperDave

Automatic trans fluid sometimes clears 'em up. Just don't dump a bunch in at once or you WILL have problems..

Jon B

Wouldn't you be able to observe the movement of the valve stems, by removing the valve covers?  You could not the valves in the suspected cylinder and compare their movement with that of the neighboring valves (which are obviously not stuck).  If the valve seems to be closing completely, then you have eliminated that as the potential problem.  Of course it could still be a hole in the cylinder (not common), burned valve, or (as Park suggests) blown headgasket. 

But one would think that a blown headgasket would result in BOTH adjacent cylinders having equally bad compression, wouldn't one?

50ClubCoupe

A cylinder leakdown test would tell you if if it's a valve, ring/piston or blown head gasket. Just as simple as a compression test.

jrenda

ok so i tried to get the front valve cover off and i cant.  tried removing the oil line but nope, still cannot slide the cover out.  not up not down.  not left nor right. if i have to remove the carb/intake/etc etc etc im just goint to install another engine.   ive about had it.  i am ready to call it a day and go crate engine.  arghhhh

Ric West IN

For you, I think that is the best solution.

Good Luck!    If its not fun, don't do it!

"Ric"

jrenda

lol -  i really wanted to keep things in check but at this point i have well over 20 hours and a few hundred dollars invested just to see IF the engine would run.  I don't regret it as I am learning a lot and if I want to sell the engine I can be upfront about what I know.  I am going to put the valve cover back on and add some marvel oil.  let it sit and try again tomorrow.  

I only want to pull it as a last resort but even if it runs I still have the trans being stuck to sort, etc. and this is for a car that had what 110ish hp when new 70 years ago?  I know some are fine with putting around but for the time and cost i will have invested I want to be able to drive the car without worry.  That's not to disrespect anyone else or other's opinions or preferences.  it's only meant that I have in my head what I hope to be able to do with confidence.  But at least i feel like i've tried to keep it going.  

Per

Jason,

     Most of those compression readings are very good.  It's a sign that the engine is healthy.  Try some more to get it running!

     If you don't already have new spark plugs, you could bring one to a parts store and find something that fits.  That's what I did, and have driven across the country twice with them.  I'll check to see what the brand and number is, and let you know.  I just sent you an email about points.

                Per

PS: Can you shift the gears on the transmission?

Jon B

Can you reference us to a particular photo on your website, that shows the side of the engine with the valve chamber covers?  I don't own an eight (but I do own a six of the same vintage) and can't quite grasp that Hudson would have made it so difficult to remove the valve chamber covers.  (This would have been required at every tune-up!).  My guess is that some of the old timers here will be able to offer a shortcut to get you into the valve chambers so you can see if the valves are moving up & down.

You need to get out and talk to some of the folks in the New England Chapter!  There's a meet on Sept. 18 in Shapleigh, Me., and Carl Weber's big meet on Oct. 16 in Attleboro.  You won't find a nicer bunch of people and if you take your questions (and some photos) along, I'll bet they can answer them.  And I'm sure someone will be driving an Eight, which you can then check out. If you need a particular part, someone may have one for sale or will know where to get it.  Don't try to work in a vacuum when you have all this technical knowledge nearby!

KustomKreeps

Shame you are on the other side of the world or i would of offered you the one im about to rip out.

How much a rush are you in?  

If you like the idea of an old donk for what ever reason then give it another week or two.

Flatten ya battery every day trying a different trick kinda thing. lil more advance on distrib, lil more gas.

I will pop out take a vid of my old bomb latter. Try to show the ratty condition of the leads for you to compare, the amount of spark im getting (what aint huge), will see if i can show where i have distributor set and carbs set.

You will have to keep in mind these settings are wayyy off  normal. i have it set from when i first tried to bring it back to life. so advanced.

Basically tho. you should still be able to start up with those ratings. Once you get it started it will/should /toes crossed unstick the old timer.

 

You are getting a decent squirt of gas down the carb when u pump it? 

You try holding choke open as you start?

Squirt engine starter at it? 

the engine catch at all? like even 1 single chug or just keep turning over.

If it does chug then did the car lurch forward like its in gear? ie stuck clutch? if so then every day for a week drain the clutch, fill with kerosene turn a lil bit. then throw in some dot 3 auto fluid. rotate for a day or so. drain out and should be unstuck with luck. oh and pump the clutch crap load each day.

After saying all this I would still rip out the engine throw a crate motor in it if you got the cash. 

flowers & a complement on the hair may not be enough at this stage think fancy dinner, handbag, makeup,shoes or something else when informing the better half of your new great decision that will be safer for her and the kids and possibly cure all the worlds woes.

Old inlines are great, attract guys over 50 like flies. or at least my Buicks has that effect. 

But my bird likes the sound, look and feel of a V8. And i find its the same with most woman along with anyone who is half the age of your car.

Anywho. If you need any vids or pics or anything flick me a msg and i will get it sorted for you.

If you get time take a vid of trying to start it. let us see we may get a better idea.

Alex

jrenda

thanks all.  and thanks for the laugh KustomKreeps!!  the better half knows when i show up with flowers that something is wrong .....

I'll keep fiddling.  added some marvel oil today will let that sit and try again. 

Geoff

You obviously have a stuck valve on No. 4.  You should be able to see through the plug hole if it  is going up and down.  if it is not, a gene tap with a hammer and punch will probably do the trick.  

Huddy42

Geoff, Where do I find a gene to tap the hammer, is this Kiwi speak.lol

Frankvintagefullflowcom

What he meant was, "genie". Go rub your limp and one will appear.

F

KustomKreeps

Frankvintagefullflowcom said:

...Go rub your limp ...

im tempted to say so many things to this comment.

1954Hudson

Iam sure he did not mean that !

KustomKreeps

you mean Geoff meaning "gentle" when he wrote "gene" right?

everything else seems to be in order here.
o.o'

Geoff

Correct - gentle.   Fingers cannot keep up with brain. Sometimes the valve will go down with a clunk and then work normally., other times you may have to knock it down a few time before it works by itself again.   the exhaust valve is under the spark plug.   Frank, the mind boggles!

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Ooops! Danged typos. I meant to say "lamp".....like Aladdin's Lamp.

F

jrenda

ARGHHHH well i got the valve ubstuck and now have 60psi!!  But I cannot get the points and condenser and lead wires off the distributor due to not having any clearance with the manifold, etc etc.  Do you pull the whole distibutor out to change points and condenser etc?

- jason

lostmind

Jason , with all due respect , you need a different hobby.

Pass the Hudson on to someone else.

Not every one is cut out for old cars

jrenda

Wow.  Didn't expect that sort of response on this board.  

For all the positivity and people like Per who have been gracious enough to help via emails, this forum and even in-person me i truly appreciate it.   I'm learning.  I will ask questions that prove my ignorance but to me I'd rather do that and learn than to assume and do worse.

I'll get there at some point.

EdHudson

It's always easier to pull the distributor. I always position the rotor at 12 o'clock and also mark the distributor housing and block at 12 o'clock so that the timing will be good when you reinstall. 8 cyl points are no longer available. 

Echlin part numbers are:

Points CS 13,  Cap AL 66, Rotor AL 65, Condenser AL 868 or 869 (one has a copper strap and the other has a normal lead wire, I think 868 has the strap)

jrenda

thank you very much Ed!!  will try this week, 

happy to have some compression in all cyls now!

- jason

Jon B

YIKES!  I don't believe Lostmind's response is representative of this forum's.  I know you're new to Hudsons and it's obvious you're trying your best.  And we appreciate that you are willing to give the old eight a chance before looking for a Brand X engine.  As long as you're willing to keep trying, we will try to give you the best advice we can.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Am I the only one who is curious about the 128 lbs. on one cyl.?  I didn't think you could get an eight (or almost any) to produce that much pressure at cranking speed. Maybe a mouse nest occupying some of the CC volume (not serious, of course).

Frank

EdHudson

Jason

 What are the compression readings now? Both with and without a little oil.

lostmind

Jon B said:

YIKES!  I don't believe Lostmind's response is representative of this forum's.  I know you're new to Hudsons and it's obvious you're trying your best.  And we appreciate that you are willing to give the old eight a chance before looking for a Brand X engine.  As long as you're willing to keep trying, we will try to give you the best advice we can.

I've responded many times on this forum. He seems to be frustrated and in past his ability.

There are many replies on here that you make that I don't agree with , but I always figured you were entitled to your opinion without condemnation.

I suspect this car will end up with the Hudson engine  puled and then the car abandoned like many others.

This is an OPEN forum , correct?

Uncle Josh

OK, I guess I'm the harbinger of bad news but I've been through several of these 254s.as well as half a dozen of it's sisters the splasher 212.

if they've set around more than a couple of years, or if it wasn't yours to begin with, you don't know WHAT you have. 

I would not start an old splasher without taking it apart down to the main bearings which means pulling the head, pistons, camshaft, crankshaft etc. Every time, I find stuff that makes me glad I did it.

Typical was the one I rebuilt for a friend with a 40 Country Club 8.  He said it had new oil (25 years ago), It would not even run out of the drain, just like grape jelly.  That means it would not have run into the main and cam bearings by gravity, so it would have burned those.

#7 Needed a wooden plug and a hammer to get it loose..after the rods were disconnected.

I found a broken lifter which would have caused havoc.  The valves were surprisingly good, and only needed lapping.  I'm going to pull my 40 8 as at least one valve seat has 3 little nicks out of it. (30psi) That's one I missed after re-doing the rest of it.

I found that 2 of the pistons were cracked and would have come apart. Replaced from my stash.

The water jacket was toast, needing a replacement,  and somebody had tried to tap out one of the threads and broken a tap in the hole.  I had to chip it out and put a nut on the inside.

#1 camshaft lobe was almost round, so had to get another camshaft.

The main bearings all had about .007 clearance so had to remove shims to get to .001

Of course it needed new rings and gaskets., and the camshaft thrust washer which was GONE.

It runs great now, and I predict a long life, but had it started, it would have destroyed itself.

This engine may be telling you something.  If you're not going to do the work, let one of us have it. 

I'm running a 39CC 8 I went through in my 47 pickup.  It's smooth as silk.  Sucks all the attention from the cars around it at the shows, when I start it up for em.  and is one of my daily drivers

It doesn't pay to take short cuts with these things.

Just sayin