Fram Oil Filter Canister?
Comments
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IMO those Frams were so incredibly minimally effective that they were nearly useless, but a nice small profit item for the dealer's parts counter and service department to install and maintain.
You and your engine are far better off changing your oil frequently and leaving the filter assembly off.
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Keep in mind that the original-styled filter kits are a by-pass system and not a full filtration system, meaning, that only some of the oil actually goes through the filter, not all of it. Not all of the oil gets filtered . . . at least right away. If having a full filtration system is important to you, then contacting someone like Frank Hughes who makes such a system and is to your benefit.I have two of the bypass systems (original equipment) on two cars. Most of us that have them are of the mind that some filtration is better than none. These cars were actually designed not to have ANY filtration, but to change the oil regularly. We all know that filtering the oil is going to make your engine last longer, regardless.Usually when you find the kit, the hoses are often included. However, I think Dave Kostansek used to sell the hoses individually. I believe Dale Cooper also has sets of them and Wildrick Rubber Products might have them as well. Filter used is a C-30 Fram filter, still available, usually on Ebay. I just came across someone here on the forum that had 6 of them for sale for a reasonable price, so I picked them up. Kubota Orange is a good representation of the original canister color. Gloss black for the top and Wildrick sells the decals, faithfully reproduced that originally adorned the canister. You can figure 1 more quart of oil on oil changes.Walt Mordenti (at least used to) make an aluminum bracket that held a modern styled oil filter. I think I still have one of those on the shelf. The original-styled Fram filters can be found by contacting the usual suspects, like Wildrick, Lance Walker, etc. Find one that is made for a Hudson block, they bolt right up, as the bosses are already cast there and drilled and tapped. Nice weekend project to restore a unit and get it installed.Not much more that I can add.0
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Thank you, Still... "Doing nothing" is also a valid option I am considering. :-)I don't drive the car that much - mostly just random weekends to local car shows when I have time, then of course not at all during the winter.I understand that I should change the oil every 1000 miles. Well, I'm sure I'll drive it way less than 1000 miles per year, so the plan is to just change the oil every fall before I mothball the car for the winter.Being a younger guy, it just pains me to have no filtration whatsoever... :-)0
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Thank you, RL. I just saw that Wildrick's sells a nice restored kit with all the decals and stuff already on it. My birthday is just 2 days away... maybe I should treat myself! Very tempting! http://www.wrphet.com/pn24.html0
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I've got one on my Commadore but it's not hooked up. Show and tell. AND, if one of those hoses springs a leak and you don't catch it, there goes your oil.0
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Ha... yeah, I thought that it might be cool just to have it installed, but not hooked up. I've seen a lot of these filters recently at car shows, and wondered to myself how many are *actually* hooked up, because I'm sure not all are...0
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True, a bypass type filter is better than nothing at all and, looking back, it was the only option until engines were designed and built to have a full flow type and, of course, until filters were developed to accept the high flows in such a system while still being effective in suspended particle removal.
If you are planning to install a bypass, hook it up......if the hoses are spec'd accordingly and correctly routed, there's very little danger of "blowing a hose". If you've heard horror stories of ruptured hoses, I'll bet the detail was left out about how old/brittle/delicate the hose was. AND, if you can't smell the odor of hot oil being sprayed into your engine bay, then you're not paying the attention required to pilot one of these older vehicles....I'll wager that you do.
Frank
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Frankvintagefullflowcom said:
True, a bypass type filter is better than nothing at all and, looking back, it was the only option until engines were designed and built to have a full flow type and, of course, until filters were developed to accept the high flows in such a system while still being effective in suspended particle removal.
If you are planning to install a bypass, hook it up......if the hoses are spec'd accordingly and correctly routed, there's very little danger of "blowing a hose". If you've heard horror stories of ruptured hoses, I'll bet the detail was left out about how old/brittle/delicate the hose was. AND, if you can't smell the odor of hot oil being sprayed into your engine bay, then you're not paying the attention required to pilot one of these older vehicles....I'll wager that you do.
Frank
I agree with Frank, especially about the old/brittle/delicate (meaning ancient) hoses. These engines carry a very low Oil Pressure and the chance of "blowing" one . . . well, I just don't see it, but can't say it couldn't happen, but highly unlikely, let's say.0 -
I ended up ordering a restored unit from Wildricks. It actually was a reasonable deal, I think, because the old ratty units on eBay weren't exactly cheap, and I'd still have to buy the paint and decals if I wanted them to look nice. Not to mention a filter, which the Wildrick's comes with...Ha... when it comes to rubber parts, I'll always prefer new over NOS. Wildrick's recommends getting new hoses at Tractor Supply. I'm in luck, as one just opened up less than a mile away this summer.Any advice on which hoses to look for? I don't know enough about this stuff, so I'd probably bring the canister with me and try to find something that fit.Also, is there anything I need to do to install it, other than screwing in the hoses to the appropriate places on the block? It looks like the hose at the bottom of the canister screws into the bottom hole on the block, and the side hose screws into the top hole. Is there anything else required? Does the hex head between the holes on the block need to be messed with?Oh, and one last noob question - I assume these filters should be changed out every oil change, just like a modern screw-on filter would be, correct?0
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No, nothing else required. Typical set of hoses are about 6-7" long. Yes, change filter every oil change. Congratulations. Post pics when you get completed. Everybody loves pics.0
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I never installed "rubber" lines to my filter. Both are rigid copper with compression fittings. Been there for 25+ years. I will admit that the flex rubber are easier to install. I usually change oil at 2000 mi. Even 3k is probably ok since the lubes are way better today then 60+ years ago.0
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Any of the commonly available fittings are acceptable since oil flow is restricted by the 1/16" orifice in the center discharge tube of the canister. No point in worrying about orifice size elsewhere in the circuit. Be sure to plumb it in with the supply hose to the side of the canister and the outlet from the bottom center.Ken U-Tx said:The 1/8 npt block outlet port is the vertical one on top of the regulator boss, and the return to crankcase is the horizontal 1/8th npt port below it.Frank0 -
Do these lines have to be custom made based on existing? Haven't seen any part numbers promulgated.0
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Richard,You can order them from NAPA, Weatherhead #11463.John0
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Thanks John. Guess I'd better go to my hose place.
>> http://www.alliancehtw.com/click on NAPA response attachment
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So, I went to Tractor Supply today, but did not see anything that I could use for lines in the hydraulics section. Nothing even close, really. However, next to the oil filters and such, they sold "grease hoses" for grease guns. They were the perfect size and fit (12 inches with 1/8 MNTP threads). They look very sturdy and take up to 12,000 PSI... HOWEVER they are made of "thermoplastic" so I have concerns with how they will hold up sitting next to the hot engine.Is this what I need, or am I crazy/misguided for even considering using them??0
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You are making this more difficult than you need too. I would go without the filter--but, I did not on my car, so I am not a good example. You can pick up the filters at any swap meet, but if that fails, PM me and I can send you a photo of the one on my wall for free--But, you would have to pay the postage. Most auto stores can make up the high pressure hoses. That is where I got mine...0
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There is absolutely no reason to seek high-pressure hoses for this application. The system operates at 40 psi with occasional spikes to (maybe) 50. parker's "Push-Lok" hoses and fittings are 'way more than adequate with pressure ratings well above 300 psi in the small diameters. You are making this too difficult. There are even color choices but I'd go with black.....not blue or orange.
F
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Ha - I frequently make things more difficult for myself. It's the curse of being analytical - paralysis by (over)analysis.The biggest issue is, I can't overstate enough how foreign most of this stuff is for me. I never grew up around cars and tools and hardware, etc. Imagine going to the zoo, shaving an ape, and then giving him a 1954 Hudson Hornet Coupe, and internet access. That's basically where I'm at right now ;-) I spent days researching hoses and fittings. I've never even heard of "thermoplastic" or "1/8 NPT fittings" before, but I have now! Give me time and Google, and I can eventually figure most stuff out! (With help from this forum, of course!)My grandfather's Hudson was passed on to me by way of my uncle, so now it's my turn to be the family custodian. I will keep it until I am ready to pass it on to the next generation, which won't be for a LONG time, so I'm in it for the long haul. I am trying to get as much information as possible from the experienced guys, so that I can pass it on one day. It amazes me that some of the people here still have their Hudsons that they bought brand new!As far as the filter setup goes, I should now have everything I need. I got some 90 degree brass elbows from Lowe's. Simple enough. Also got some 5/16 bolts/washers to attach the canister to the block. The canister came with 1 filter, but I took that with me to the store to match to a more modern filter, and found that a FRAM C3P will also fit. It looks like the same filter, but with paper around the outside instead of steel. There are also more original-looking filters made by WIX on Amazon and eBay (WIX 51010 I believe).The biggest snag for me was the hoses, because I when I started, I knew nothing about hoses and fittings. I was never really concerned with the pressure, but rather the temperature of the engine and hot oil. After a lot of research, I decided to just have some fittings custom-made by a shop. The hoses are designed specifically for hot oil, which is what I wanted. I also wanted both ends to have swivel 1/8 NPT threads, so they'll screw right into the elbows. I could also pick the exact length I wanted. Sure, I could have gotten some hoses right off the shelf, but it looked like most would require some kind of adapters on 1 or both ends to convert them to 1/8 thread, and I wanted to keep things as clean and elegant as possible.I'm not expecting miracles as far as actual filtration goes, but something is better than nothing. I mainly just like this setup for the "cool factor" and as a conversation starter. Having only ever driven modern cars with screw-on filters, I didn't even know setups like this existed until my father pointed one out at a recent car show. When I saw that they made ones with Hudson-specific decals, I had to have one!Hopefully I will have time this weekend to change the oil in Henrietta, and install the new setup. Although it will probably look pretty much like every other setup out there, I'll post a pic nonetheless.Apologies for the verbose reply, but I suppose it's one of the perks of having a desk job! :-)And thank you everyone for all the advice!!0
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Older artacle from the Studebaker forum ---
http://www.studebaker-info.org/text3/blocks.txtPartial - Full Flow engines ------------ Partial-flow" blocks refer to blocks not having an oil filter passage. Mid 1962 and all earlier engines. They either have NO filter, or have an add-on that filters by tapping into a cylinder head oil passage to filter PART of the oil flow. In spite of what some may say, a partial flow filter is much better than none. Chrysler engineers determined that even a partial flow system filters all the crankcase oil every 6 to 10 minutes. So if the engine has none, it is still very much worth installing a partial flow filter. Just make sure you have the right plumbing because there is a restrictor orifice that is needed to prevent dumping your oil pressure down the return line. If you suddenly get really low oil pressure after installation, the restrictor is missing. The older (partial flow) blocks were the most perfect and the strongest of the castings, tho that usually does not matter with Studes extra strong engines. Even the "weaker" Stude blocks are much stronger than the BrandX thinwall softblocks. The extra weight Stude carries is the actually it's greatest asset. The partial flow blocks could safely take a larger bore than the later blocks. But even the later blocks can easily take .125 safely. I've heard of over .150 being done safely on late full flow blocks. ----------- Refit to Full-Flow -the change took place on or about April 17th at engine number S-248301 for 6's and V-559387 for V8's.
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More discussion about partial flow system here-
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?39108-OEM-partial-flow-oil-filter-opinion-poll
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After reading through the SDC posts, it reminded me that the discussion rarely (If ever) mentions the fact that a full flow system passes oil through a filter before it enters the internal distribution network, not after having passed through all of the lubricated points in the engine and being "bled-off" of the surplus flow. True that a bypass element typically exhibits a higher filtration ability (numerically lower micron rating) but isn't capable of the rate necessary to pass the entire pump output. A bypass-type in conjunction with a full-flow system (as referenced in one of the posts) is most desirable, yielding the benefits of each type, however it's my opinion (surprise!) that if one is to employ only one, it should be a full-flow type. Having said that, it's not an option in most applications. For me, it's not a question of partial-flow vs full flow, but a question of filtered prior to, or after, passing through the lubricated parts of your engine.
Regarding the metered orifice (did the SDC guy actually say "orface"?), I don't know that it's universally true that there is an internal 1/16th hole in the discharge tube, as I mentioned previously, however I have found it to be so in all of the Hudson applications I have so far observed. If you are using a non-Hudson spec'd canister, it would be prudent to check for that feature. In the absence of it, a restrictive fitting should be employed using that same size orface.
It's my opinion that sludge accumulation is more a result of poorly vented crankcases in conjunction with a number of other factors, like the quality of oils available "back in the day", engine condition (blow-by is a big contributor) and, of course, maintenance. At some point in the history of most Hudsons, they were just another old car and not worthy of even an oil change, much less a filter change, if so equipped. I predict that when man is finally gone from the planet, the last forum post will be on the subject of "by-pass vs full-flow".
F
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One more comment by Jeff Rice, retired from working for a filter company.
Basically, a 'partial flow' system just taps oil off the system downstream from the oil pump, and dumps it back into the pan.
The bearings are lubricated with oil 'from the pan'...
A 'full flow' system pushes oil out of the oil pump and immediately through the filter.
The bearings (cam/crank/rods) all see fully filtered oil.
The filter a/o the housing will have a pressure bypass valve built in to bleed off pressure spikes that could damage the filter element.
(Cold startup, mostly)
The statement that all the oil in a partial flow system gets filtered ...eventually.. That is a misnomer.
There is no guarantee the flow inside the engine compartment is going to repeat at a given point in every, or any cycle.
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Or maybe DOT 5 vs DOTX brake fluid, or zinc additives in oil..........0
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Wellllll. Kerry's post describes fact as opposed to opinion. I've long tried to put his last line into my own words as it is a fact that any given drop of oil may never make through the bypass type filter......sure, it probably does at some point, but it's not a certainty.
To add an important point to his statement about the FF system pushing oil out of the pump and immediately through a filter, I'll attach a piece I've written on that subject. The piece obviously ends with a plug for a product that I manufacture and sell, but it was created to ease the minds of those who have either installed a filter set-up in an engine without regulation at the pump or have heard the horror stories of such risky "conversions".
It should also be noted that not all filter elements include an internal filter bypass valve. Some (mostly GM, I believe) systems have the bypass situated elsewhere in the circuit.
Frank Hughes
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So, I was finally able to install the filter setup yesterday. Continuing with my theme of over-complicating things, the custom-made hoses I ordered did not fit right, so I had to go to Plan B. I ordered hoses for an old Willys vehicle. However, they required an adapter fitting to convert the one end to 1/8 NPT, so I had to order that online too. This looks like a good setup going forward, though, because the hoses seem plentiful - I ordered them on Amazon for $12 each with free 2-day shipping.The sockets on the block that the canister bolts to had all kinds of dirt, paint, rust, and who-knows-what-else in them, so I had to clean them out with a tap. Easy enough.Overall, the installation went very smoothly, which is saying something, considering I have the mechanical aptitude of a well-trained ape...No leaks as it was running in my driveway. I will take it on a long drive for the real test...0
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