asking for help valuating my 48 Hudson

jrenda

I probably should have asked this BEFORE I bought the car lol but the truth is I am ok with what I paid for it.  I love the stance and style and the idea of hot rod Hudson makes me happy. 

I wasn't keenly aware of the rarity of my 48 Commodore 8 cyl Coupe combination when I bought it.  I only learned of it after the purchase and discovering this forum.  My intention has never been to restore it - I have neither the interest nor resources to do that.  I knew I'd be replacing everything in the interior - as while it was complete it was also home to an untold number of varmints and such for 50 years.  I wanted to lower it with coils and a set of lowering blocks, replace the tires, overhaul the brakes, and run it.  Make it safe, fun and not doing anything that would detract from it's originality.  That was the plan anyway.  

I am not asking for valuation to sell the car (at least not right now) nor am I giving up on the project.  What I am hoping for is some ballpark, hopefully based in reality opinions as to the value of my car as it sits now.  I don't care about a #1 car value - as I said I will never go to that point. 

My reasoning for asking is that I am at a crossroads regarding the engine and trans.  While I have my backup engine combo with a 250 and T5 I want to be respectful enough of the car's originality to at least have an idea of it's significance and value before hacking away.  An engine and trans rebuild will be to the tune of $6000 or more I've been quoted and that is just not in the cards.  I also do not trust myself and my limited abilities to rebuild the engine and trans successfully.  At this time I've cleaned the upper dipper tray, filled it with oil, cleaned the lower oil pan, added a new coil, changed the starter solenoid, added new plugs and am rebuilding the distributor. If still a no-go after that I have to make some decisions. 

I've read the car is 1 of around 5400 in this combo. There are many pics on my site including those taken by Harley freedman who is not only a professional photographer but also the one who pulled the car from a barn.  

May I ask for your help in gathering ideas about what a project car like this with title, original engine, etc etc may be worth?  Other than the pass door needing metalwork the rest of car inc the subframe is in very good shape.  The car is complete and anything that I have removed from the doors etc has been safely stored inside.  

Again this is not to establish a base line to sell it.  It's so that i can make educated choices about if and how I should invest in the car and what consequences there would be should I choose to alter my plan.

As always thank you for any insight.

pics can be found here: www.jasonmrenda.com and again credit for the nice pics goes to Harley Freedman.  You can view his photos on his site at http://vintagehudson.com/

- jason

Kdancy

According to the old cars price guide, this is a #5 car. The book for a #5 is $2,760.00.
I'm guessing that is on the high side.

jrenda

really? well then holy hell i paid wayyy too much lol!  oh well - jeez I thought there was some coin attached to the rare status.  

yikes.

well thanks for the help.  always good to get real world input.

- jason

50C8DAN

Be careful going strictly on the Old Car Guide.  I use it for a relative feel on what a car might be worth but it is badly flawed in some areas. For example it always shows Commodores having a higher value in the same year as Hornets and I doubt that that is true.   A '48 C8 Coupe is a fairly rare beast and it may be worth well more than what it shows.  There are lots of variable and things to consider in the evaluation.  

Also not sure what year Kdancy is using but here is the valuation from the 2017 Old Cars Guide:

$2,760 is for a #5 not a #2 car.  I would ask $5K and work from there.

SuperDave

Rarity and desirability are two different things, You can have one of a kind but if no one wants it.. Value is nil.

I am a purist at heart but I have to admit that "resto-rods" done well seem to sell better than original restorations. For me,, I want to satisfy my desires and not be concerned with "resale'.

Quadster

Jason,

It's a rare car with lots of potential in the right hands. Changing the engine and adding a goofy white interior will only LOWER the value of the car. Adding a chevy 250 and trans will be a ton of work, motor mounts, tranny mounts and driveshaft will all need to be fabbed. From what I gather from reading your posts you don't have the skills to do this safely--paying someone to do this kind of work will be half the cost of doing the engine. And ruin a perfectly restorable Hudson.

 You should sell it to a Hudson fan and find a running drivable car to tinker with. You will get a lot more enjoyment out of something you can safely take your kids out in. 

Sorry to be negative here!

Harley

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Ditto that....

F

Kdancy

Dan, I flipped the numbers. According to the guide it's a #5 condition, #1 being the best. It needs a complete redo and doesn't run. Knowing the task ahead, I personally think the book is a tad high for that particular car. It's not cheap to properly restore a stepdown and you'll have more in it than it will ever bring on the market. I always find more things that need to be done than I thought after looking at a vehicle, always hidden surprises. Having said that, this 48 looks to be an excellent candidate for restoration.

Dave, you are exactly right, rarity and desirability are not the same thing. This effects market price. I recently looked at a 34 Chrysler Airflow that a local guy bought to turn. Condition wise, a solid 5. A very interesting car to me and one I would like to have restored if I'd had the time, money and space. He just sold it for less than he paid for it. Just not much of a market. Also Dave, the key here is "properly done". Almost all resto rods I have knowledge of, lost money and big money on re-sale. TV shows have done a disservice to everyone on this subject.

 Harley, I think your post is dead on, couldn't agree more.

Jason, take the time to really think this out before you start taking things apart. Do you have the skill, money, place to do a project like this? I have a 53 Super Wasp Coupe and a 53 Hornet Coupe that started out as projects, got stripped and never put back together. Now many parts are missing on both cars. Good intentions but they didn't realize the task ahead, the disassembly is the easy part! 

jrenda

I don't take fair criticism as negative.  I'm probably more critical of myself than anyone else is.  I have built and sold many motorcycles from the ground up and I started like anyone else has - with more desire to learn than inherent knowledge. The Hudson is my current platform for learning.

While I truly respect the appreciation for all things original that purists keep near and dear to their hearts the truth is I am not a purist, never have been and make no apologies for not being so.  Because I respect the purist standpoint is why I asked this question before continuing on with what my expectations are for the car.

My intention of this post was not to gather info to sell the car.  However based on the opinions that all I will do is ruin a Monet, if there is someone with the "right hands" and the right cash and would like to come and get it please reach out privately - you can message me or email me.  

If not I will make the decisions as I see fit.  Critical or not I do appreciate the opinions posted.

Thank you.

- jason

Kdancy

Jason,
  If your not a "purist", nothing wrong with that, why not look for a good body stepdown that is not as complete as this one and go from there? If your going to change out the drivetrain, then the condition of the original drivetrain doesn't matter.
If you are going to change the interior, then the original doesn't matter -- and so on.
 Ed Forrester had a 1949 Coupe at the National meet this year that he had rescued from a field. Too far gone to really justify a restoration so he installed a chevy drivetrain and helped do the custom leather interior. The 49 turned out really nice, one of the nicest I've seen.
  Remember, you asked us to help you determine a value. Do what you want it is now your car. I'm just not clear as to what you really want our input on??

jrenda

Thank you Kdancy.

I was trying to ascertain the cost "worth" of the car in terms of real dollars so that I can ascribe a value to my actions.  I realize this sounds like some whacked out head shrinker mumbo jumbo but it's the only way I know how to link emotion with finances.  To be able to evaluate the emotional side of potentially wrecking an only original-once vehicle.  

I literally cannot relate to a purists' standpoint.  It's not that I disagree or don't find validity in it.  Quite the opposite actually.   My brain with it's ADHD (literally, not figuratively) does not compute the need to keep things original.  Instead it focuses on what i will spend, what that will yield, what I can do vs sub-out, etc and it just keeps rolling that tally up in my head on and on.  It may sound ridiculous but it's the truth.  Even if I wanted to see it through someone else's eyes I quite simply can't.

That is why I asked before I leaped. I was not intending on being flippant or discourteous about asking if anyone would like to save the car and apologize if it came off that way.  There are millions of hot rod candidates out there but right now I own this one.  I don't have the space or funds to acquire another before letting go of the Hudson.  Hence the reason for asking if someone more equipped than I to take this car to another level is out there and may be interested.  I'm fine with getting the car to where I want it to be, but I also wanted to understand what the consequences would be in doing so and thus potentially let someone else become the owner before I start down my rabbit hole.

i hope that makes sense.

 - jason

Browniepetersen

Jason, There you have it.  We Hudson folks are not shy about the way we approach our beloved cars.  But, I think you miss the point with this project.  The main question is:  Is this the car you want for the rest of your life?  This is a nice car.  It is unique (I hate the term rare.  I have had two Hudson's that were "One off" cars and I do not think of them as rare.  Besides rare does not equate to value.) because of the eight cyl engine that it has.  With that said, anyone can pick up a 48 and put an eight in it and they have one.  From the point of resale, they seem not to come up for sale often and on e-Bay they never reach their reserve.  The ones that are out there are nice, and they are a very nice road car.  Not a ton of high end performance, but very good on the open road.  As far as an engine for it, a 250 is not very desirable.  A good friend has a Dodge slant 6 in his and has driven it over 400,000 miles.  A good combination any way you look at it.  I have seen a few hemi's grafted in Hudson's.  And there is a very nice 53 just North of me that has a Pontiac 455.  Not an easy project...  Bottom line here is that it is your car.  It is your money.  It is your dream....  Hudson folks like Hudson's no matter how they are built.  So, what ever decision you make--enjoy the process and we will help you any way we can along the way....

50C8DAN

Jason I think you have a number of inputs here that may help your decision process.  I am guessing you may be able to find a Hudson Nut that would love to have a '48 C8 Coupe as original and swap you a Hornet less drive train, there are plenty sitting around.  The question is what will you swap and if money is involved how much?  A later model Hornet will also be easier to sell in the long run as well as they have more cache shall we say.  Are you a member of the HET Club?  If not you should be and also it would give you access to a wider network of potential swappees.  My question, what would you take for your car straight up?  That way those of us on the forum can check around with others in the Hudson network.

jrenda

Thanks Dan (and all),

I am a member of the HET.  As for a cash price I would like to get out of it close to what I have into it which at this point is somewhere north of the $7000 mark.  Should someone have something he or she wishes to trade (Hudson or other make) please feel to reach out to me.  I have always enjoyed trades as those seem to net more favorable results for both parties.  As for possible swap options I would be open to considering anything of "hot rod" material.  early Fords, Chevies etc.  But feel free to send whatever. 

If I do decide to offer the car up for sale officially I will post it with my asking price under the appropriate section. Should someone be inclined to make a cash offer that too would be welcomed though I am not about to consider this a fire sale.  I have clear paperwork etc. All original parts are stored indoors.  While I do not need to sell or trade the car in any sort of hurry I am also realistic to know that the longer it sits with me the greater the chance I will start down my path.  Forgive the used car salesman speak, I just know me and my propensity for jumping in head first.

 - jason

50C8DAN

Jason please send your email address and I will post it over at the Hudson Forum for swaps.

Per

Jason,

     I suggest getting the distributor together, so you can run the engine.  The transmission most likely doesn't need to be taken apart.  The clutch can often be gotten back in action without taking it apart.  It would be great if you have a chance to drive the car, even if you then swap for something else.

Per

KustomKreeps

There is a good market out there for either a restored, rest mod or custom.

Thing is Steep down hudsons have that chopped look guys want. Mercs etc are common and good ones are getting harder to find. You basically have a chopped merc from the factory. Its just a semi unknown or forgotten brand (i had never heard of them till i brought mine)

But from experience of selling a lot of old cars and noting who buys etc i would say.

1. Restoration - target market people over 50 or 60. can be nit pickers and hagglers some times as often they have either had one, grew up in one or been after one and researched for some time. Still they can pay well i find as what the fek else is there to waste cash on at that stage of life. they tend to have sentimental attachments to the brands.

2. Resto Mod. ie looks mostly original but has updated drive train. easy sell and i always seem to put the price on to low i think cus they dont sit. we are talking 20s + yr olds. so large target market. Dudes just want a cool old car that is reliable and sounds cool. So if you have little rust then it will be snapped up.

3. Hotrod/kustom. 30+yr olds who have a big wallet and i aint sold one I would put in this category. im talking changed up drive train or heavy mod engine, changed up body with chop etc. Pricey beast to build or buy.

With your car unless you solely advertise and target restoration market i would imagine the next owner would realistically swap out to a V8.

I personally believe you would get a better price from a guy who will rip out the old I8 and put in a V8.

Just note when asking a question like this on a forum who has 80-90% of the active posters being restoration guys you more than likely will get feedback that will mirror this. 

As for a real world dollar. not sure about in the states where you lurk sorry. 

What ever you do make sure its what you and your missus wants. (mine never liked anything inline to drive from old 40s to 70s versions) she wont drive my restored inline 8. think this is not just the sound or power of other engines its more the times old 6 or 8 cylinders engines have died and finding a part was a pain in ass.

Cool body style man. I know i have said it to you many times - slow down. why race. You basically got your self a chopped looking car for a decent price.

Alex

ps V8 swap aint that hard for the size V8 you got. you could keep alot of the running gear. although the V8 will weigh less than the old I8.

Jon B

Jason, just a reminder that Carl Weber's Hudson meet happens on the 16th, in N. Attleboro.  You'll meet a lot of Hudson addicts, see a number of fine cars (going back to the 'teens), and maybe find some parts.  You'll certainly get an earful of good technical advice, so take along your questions.  Maybe someone will know of a good-running Hudson engine (a 6 or 8) for sale reasonably, that you could simply drop into your car, so you can hit the highway.  You probably won't meet a friendlier bunch.   Worst that can happen is you'll pig out on lunch, and put on an extra pound or two.  The meet notice appears near the bottom of their website ''events'' page:
http://newenglandhetclub.com/events/

duncan

I would like to know whe I am getting this post in our emailis A dozen to date.In the last week.  Ray

PaulButler

Ray, it's normally because you've commented on the post so you get "subscribed" to it but the first post I see here from you was the previous one.

Can you send me a copy of what you've got to HETpaul_hetclub@btinternet.com (drop the HET) please and I'll take a look as to why you're getting the emails