Engine sqweel help

befishers1

Help, I have a 50 8 cylinder, I started driving today and the car warmed up as usual, the car was driving great and then I heard what I thought was a whistling, since it was the rare day here in Florida that the windows were up I thought it was just a window, then it got louder.  I pulled over and there was a loud sqweel coming from the front half the motor.  I turned it off immediately, checked oil, radiator, etc just to check the obvious, nothing obvious.  A little low on oil but not much, topped it off, tried starting it since I was only a mile from the house, no noise, drove a couple hundred yards and it started quietly, turned the motor off and coasted to verify it was the motor and everything quiet.  Turned it back on, quiet for a few hundred yards, then the squeal was rhythmic, not constant but loud then quiet, loud then quiet, it was engine speed related.  I coasted with the engine off most of the rest of the way home, the only hills in NE Florida all downhill to my house.  Before I started digging in I wanted to see what everyone may think.  It is definitely the front half, could be water pump or generator I suppose but it sounds more the block, my fear would be a main, rod, or cam bearing without oil and don't want to run it and try and find out, the front oil line was warm and the oil pressure light was off so I believe the drip trays are getting filled as they should.  

Any ideas on how to check without damaging and what to look for?  I rebuilt it about 3 years ago and have had no issues since except what I think is a little vapor lock and typical little issues.

junkcarfann

Get a stethoscope (or a piece of clear plastic tubing). Place one end of the tubing or the stethoscope in your ear, and put the other end at the generator front and rear, at the water pump, and at the engine block at the front, the timing gear cover, etc. 
Listen for the sound...it will be loud and clear at the offending part or area. It could even be a generator bearing or water pump bearing race spinning/seizing, even causing the fan belt to try to turn and thus squeal.

I don't know how to diagnose it with the engine not running w/o taking it apart, but if it is in the engine some damage has already happened, so a bit more running for diagnosing is your call.

ken1962

Sounds like you need to grease the water pump cheers Ken 

Geoff

How long since you oiled the generator bearings?

befishers1

Thank you everyone for your help.  I looked at it after work and your advice was dead on.  I started it again and nice and quiet.  After 3 minutes it started squealing.  I quickly stopped it took the belt off and started it again no noise, ran it for 20 seconds.  Quickly put the belt back on after 5 seconds squealing again.  Then I took the belt off and the generator was nice and smooth (I last oiled the bearings about 5 engine hours ago).  The water pump was not bad spinning it but I noticed the fan and pulley are wobbling a good bit.  I fortunately have a spare water pump.

I remember a post at one point about the clearance between the pump and the backing plate.  I can't find it off hand.  What is the clearance supposed to be between the pump and the backing plate?

Again, thank you everyone your advice helped with narrowing it down quickly.

Geoff

Okay, if the pump shaft is wobbling, the bearing has had it's day and you need to rebuild the pump. The impeller should stand pround of the rear  surface fo the pump body by .007"-.017" according to the manual.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

If his wobble is due to bearing issues, it would be evident. I'm going to guess that it's just bent blades. Most are a bit out of whack and can be "massaged" back to near perfection, however, I have found a few to show cracks near the hub. Yikes! Glad I saw that before it was too late! I think Doug may have a Terraplane story related to that from Chattanooga.

Frank

befishers1

I will inspect the blades closely, that would be a bad day.  Thanks Geoff for the measurement, that is the number I was looking for but couldn't put finger on.  I had told my daughter and friends I would drive them to a high school dance this weekend, so they are thankful for the help as well.

Jon B

Glad you have a spare pump (they're available still, fortunately).  Rebuilding kit on Ebay right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/w-Vtg-NOS-1936-1942-Hudson-WATER-PUMP-KIT-Clawson-Bals-PRK-231-/302207660857?hash=item465cfaf339:g:kB0AAOSw9GhYi4h~&vxp=mtr

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Jon,

A good tip for someone with that pump but the post-'47 eights are a double-row ball bearing shaft type. I'd jump on it but I converted our '47 C-6 to a pre-lubricated ball bearing. No more greasing, no more mess. 

Frank

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Yeah......that one. As I recall it, it was driven for some distance after it began to vibrate. I'll say no more.

F

RichardD

The double WP pulley I had on my step down was only 1/16" thick(an oxymoron)-stupid; mine had cracked around the 4 bolts in a circle. Also the stock single belt pulley I have is 1/16" thick. If all Hudson pulleys are like that, they can work-harden and get you !
Thank goodness for a blinking charge light when the belts started slipping; saved an aluminum radiator.
Point: anything related to pulleys, belts, and pumps can happen !!

RichardD

The 1/16" thick Hudson fan pulley

befishers1

That is the definition of a bad day.

I checked the blades and pulley tonight and they look good, the bearing on the other hand was definitely the culprit.  It was grinding badly and allowed the shaft to wobble.  Good body to be rebuilt.  New pump is on and I took the opportunity to change the thermostat, it had a 175 deg so I thought I would try a 155.  I learned my lesson on belt tensioner.  3/4" it is.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Well.....that proves me wrong but at least you have your answer. Was it leaking prior to this?

F

befishers1

Frank, never leaked at all, that was the reason that I initially was more concerned.  After all is said and done I am pleased it was really minor.

The lower temp thermostat was my thinking as well since it is rarely less than 70 and in the 90s all summer I thought I would give it a try.

RichardD

Shouldn't you consider a 6-blade fan while you are into this?
Also would like to caution you on the mounting of your push electric fan: those nylon 'nails' that go thru the radiator will eventually vibrate right into the radiator flues and cause a leak. That has been posted on many blogs & forums: even Spal fans {the best} has it on their website.
 Mount the fan mount ears to structure pieces; generally straps that you have to configure.
I put extra dense foam insulation strips(house door), 1/4" tk., around the circumference of the plastic fan housing that bears against the radiator.