Carburetor: Needle v. Ball bearing kit

JasonNC

Has anyone replaced the needles in a WA-1 carburetor with the kit that is advertised in the WTN that uses ball bearings instead?  

RichardD

Jason, if you are referring to Grose Jets then my answer is Don't Use Them, I have 2 in my Austin Healey and had to take one out this past w/e and clean it. Gum will stick them up. Problem is Viton tipped needle/seats are $16. each, but will get them sometime. You will be using Gumout continually with the Groses.

Park_W

I've got the ball  valves, and have had no problems over the four or five years I've had them.  Beats heck out of cranking it up and having the carb (or both) flood over.

29sptphaeton

I've had one in my 29 for about 10 years with no more problems of gas running out when parked. Hope it doesn't gum up now after talking about it.

JasonNC

Ok. I'm sold.  Hopefully they come with installation instructions.  

RichardD

 I have had them for about 8 years; so perhaps I should expect them to go bad when I have not started the car 8-12 months and allowed them to gum up ( had not put Gumout in the gas tank).
CORRECTION: if you start your car every several months; hopefully you will not have the Grose Balls stick as I have more than just once. Go for it, Jason, but KEEP IT RUNNING !!
They certainly are cheaper~~
Funny thing tho; several months ago I had the rear carb bowl half full because the top ball was stuck to the seat and closed.  Last weekend the front carb was leaking fuel out the top because the two balls were stuck together and were not closing off on the seat {flooding}.  Crazyness~~so, why I will get Viton-tipped next and see what they do.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

I assume you are referring to the "Craig Valves" made by Bill Craig in Colorado. Bill is an exceptionally talented machinist and has been making them for quite a few years now.

I was having the infamous WA-1 "flooding at start-up" issue (sometimes one, sometimes the other, both on a few occasions) with the Viton tipped needles, tried switching to steel with poor results, then decided to try Bill's Craig Valves.....Ta Da! Never had a flooding event since. A bit spendy but far cheaper than an engine bay inferno. Gone are the days of having my wife watch the carbs every time we started it up after sitting for a while.

The Daytona disc valves seem to be effective as well. I have one of those in the Jet.

Frank

Glowplug

Using Bills valves in my twin H and single BBL installations and have had ZERO problems.  I will use these valves each time I rebuild a WA1 carb.

RichardD

Perhaps I shouldn't be posting about the Grose Jet as the inlet needle valve that shuts off the fuel in a Hudson.
My initial sentence was "Jason, if you are referring to the Grose...........".
 So, disregard my ranting if they are NOT Grose Jets with the 2 small ball bearings inside.

50ClubCoupe

Does anyone have a link to the Bill Craig valves?  After installation does the float height need to be adjusted or will they sit at spec'd level with the new valves?

Frankvintagefullflowcom

50,

The float level will be as close to the same as is practically achievable, but anytime you change anything in that mechanism you should re-set the level to be sure it's correct.

I spent a great deal of time trying to discern the reason for the needle-type valve failure and noted that the needle fit in the inlet fitting bore was sloppier than I'd have expected. It seems to me this might vary from one manufacturer to the next but they may all be working off of the same spec sheet, hence the consistent deficiency.

Viton tipped needles are actually a bit more prone to the problem because of the "square-cut" nature of the inlet orifice. Since the needle necessarily rides up against the "side" of the sloppy bore, the tip doesn't drop into the inlet orifice as it should. It tends to hang up on that sharp edge, leaving a space opposite that point. I tried adding a slight tapered edge to it by lapping with a matching angle tool with some improvement, but not good enough.

That snag occurs when the needle is rising into the bore as the float chamber fills which is why the flooding event occurs at start-up after a period of non-use.

The ball-type Craig Valve eliminates that effect 'cause the upper ball "finds" its way exactly into the hole. Geez that's tempting.

Frank 

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Rich D,

I wasn't correcting you at all. I just thought that the term "Grose jet" might be a generic term for that type.

Frank

RichardD

https://jimsgarage.wordpress.com/2006/09/14/the-grose-jet/
Tks-didn't take it that way Frank, I just thought that might be what it was and that was my experience {as recent as of last weekend !}
BUT, the whole problem is most likely mine for not cranking it often enough; or not using Gumout, and letting the gas volatiles evaporate and leave the gum to stick up the balls
Here is the story of Grose Jet. These things go back to 1966 !!

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Hmmmmm. Glowing reviews, for sure. It's the same theme as Mr. Craig's so I have no idea what the issue might be if one is having problems. My Craigs work very well so I'll stay with him.

F

50ClubCoupe

I just tried using the email that I found for Bill Craig (het#scraig10@juno.com#het) and it bounced back.  Does anyone have an alternate address for him?

Frankvintagefullflowcom

His physical is in the WTN and the email address I see is het#scraig10@q.com#het (putting it in your secret format). I don't think that has changed.

F 

JasonNC

I sent an email to q.com address @ 2:00 pm EST and it didn't bounce back, but I haven't received a response from Bill.  I am hoping he has a nine to five and, since he is three hours behind me, hasn't had time to get home from work.