Hudson newbie with questions

53_supwasp

hey all ! 

I recently picked up a ‘53 super wasp sedan with the auto trans. It’s a little rough but looks like it’s all there. 

It does run run but the cylinder bores are very clean , not even a ridge . I’d like to keep the 262 and it seems like it should run with some TLC. 

I dont know much much about the automatic trans in Hudsons . Are they good or are they crap? 

I was was thinking about putting a 700r4 in but it’s 1000 +\- for the adaptor plate kit I found , yikes !

i also have a world class T5 but not sure if that is asking for more trouble .

Ive got a 3.55 rear end from a 55 Chevy that seems like it should fit too.

really would like to set it up to cruise at 65 -70 at around 2400 rpm . The stock trans and rear gear seems like they’d cruise comfortably about 50-55 comfortably .

ive had a few 40s / 50s chevy and done similar swaps . honestly I can’t find much info about this type of swap for Hudson.

lastly is there a special bracket to be able to install an alternator or will it fit with stock bracket ?

Any help or trouble spots to watch for in the process would be much appreciated 

and if if you have any helpful hints about updating or things to watch for in general also welcome .

Thanks 

mike

Val

The only advice I can give as I don't know much if anything about the stepdown cars is that you call Doug Wildrick and speak with him if someone here doesn't jump in. He is the Hudson master 317=398=4162. He will be able  to answer all your questions> Wish I could be of more help. Consider joining the Hudson Essex Terraplane club (HET Club) if you have not done so. Many people on this forum also have much knowledge and should be able to help you out.  

Jon B

Welcome to the Hudson Open Forum, and congratulations on your purchase!

By 1953 Hudsons were built for modern highway cruising, and I'd be surprised if you car could only cruise at 50-55 mph.  That has (as I understand) a modern Dana rearend with a good choice of available rearend ratios.  I recall driving to a Hudson meet, several states away, in a '54 Hornet, and we were cruising at 60-70 MPH with occasional spurts to 80.  Don't jump to conclusions and start spending a lot of money to convert something that maybe doesn't need converting!  Most Hudson automatics were GM Hydramatics -- not what I'd call "crap!".  

One thing I'd advise: check out the rear perimeter frame in your car before you invest a penny into it.  If the car was treated roughly and left outside (and driven on salty streets) you may find some bad rust-out here.  It can be fixed but it's an added expense you have to take into account.  However, your frame may be solid as a rock.  Check it.

Finally, where are you located?  Possibly one of our forum members with a Hudson of your era, lives near you.  It's always good to have a Hudson friend nearby, who can fill you in on all the lowdown, and answer your questions.

53_supwasp

I hadn’t found any info that clearly defined either of bits of info , that is good news ! 

If if they are gm trans does that mean it’s a gm bolt pattern ? Is the info I found correct that they are 4 speed auto transmissions ? 

Is there a resource that tells you how to ID what trans and rear end is on the car ? 

I will I’ll bring a jack put it up and take a good look . Based on the the body/ frame construction what is the best jack point on these ? 

I am am in a NW Chicago burb and would love to have Hudson folks near by .

thank for the help

Ol racer

FYI
The wasp  262 is a good cruiser car at well over 60mph. The Automatic Trans is great as is if its a Hydromatic (and not a Borg Warner). You can tell on the side of the Trans there is a small Plate.. The Hydro Trans is from GM but needs an adapter for a modern GM Trans or Std Shift. Those Hydros propelled Tanks during the War..The DANA Rear is 3.07 and very good rear and highly sought after noe days. I suggest draing fluids and refilling. I also suggest join the HET Club then get car  running. Just about everything you need is available from Club Member Vendors, (even high performance upgrades) and local Auto Stores can interchange most popular parts.

Apparently you have the Cyl Head off so I would suggest doing a valve job or at least take the time to Lap the Valves using compound from an Auto Store. Additionally,Hudson motors usually wore the Timing Chains prematurally, so rotate the crank while watching the Dist Rotor for lack of instant movement when switch direction.
If so, replace the chain. There is a Dbl Roller Chain & Gear Set available that never wears out from Maas Performance (21st Crentury Hudson, in Manito Il.  www.21stcenturyhudson.net. Maas has many Engine Parts and does complete rebuilds.

 Additonally, Dale Cooper at ACE Auto in Oh, www.hudsonmotorcarco.com also has many new Hudson Parts too. This Info should get you started and questions just ask someone will help....

53_supwasp

Excellent info thank you ! 

the wiring harness is pretty well trash .I have a new painless harness and an gm alternator . Will the alternator be able to mount in the stock location or is there a bracket for these engines for alternators ? 

I’ll take a look at signing up for the HET club too

Jon B

Mike, the H-E-T Club chapter in your area is the Chicago-Milwaukee Chapter, http://cmhetclub.com/

You might want to check out their upcoming meets at the website, and look them up.  Their technical representative is Gus Souza who has worked on (and still repairs) Hydramatics for decades.  He's been into Hudsons since he was a teenager in World War II, and he's a fascinating guy to listen to, because he lived an interesting life and owned a lot of interesting cars!  Anyway, I would definitely contact someone in their chapter and see if anyone with a car similar to yours, lives near you.  I'm sure someone in their chapter will have answers to your questions, and they are near you, so you can see this stuff firsthand.

Their president is Rick Nell,  xxxrnell45@hotmail.com, delete the xxx before sending.

Ol racer

Ive simply took the stock Generator Bracket then modified it to except the early style GM Alternator with intregral Regilator, then I use an aftermarket GM long chrome 'strap type' bracket. The bottom Brkt modified for the Alt isnt pretty, but its out of sight. ( I think I slid forward to match the Water Pump Pully then redrilled to bolt to the block, or I added a piece to bolt to block.. I use a slightly narrower Belt, but there are wide Alt pullys available from Starter/Alt Rebuilder Shops. Regarding 6 V starter, I find they work well as long as dont crank too long, but there are 12V '56 Starters available. Jack Points anywhere on front Sub frame but since rear half is Unibody construction like todays cars, jack under rear end then put stands under rear U-bolts or Spring shackle front bolt.

SuperDave

The best damn Hudson I ever had was a 53 Super Wasp with Hydra-Matic. Four door. drove the wheels off it all around Florida. Always above 65 MPH. My boys in the back seat. Never had one moment of trouble. Made the mistake of selling it to pay for a 49 Commodore 8  convert. A few days later it got wrecked by the new owner. Disappeared for several years. Then Years after I sold it, it came back for an engine overhaul. A new owner n South Florida found my business card in the glove box. Called me up and we made a deal. After the overhaul, It went back to South Florida.. I bet it's still kicking butt...No modifications.. Factory Twin H. 6 volts. If i thought for a moment that it needed some modifications to be better.. I would have done it.  Now that i think about it..I should have put seat belts in it!

dwardo99

I concur with what everybody else said. I have gotten out of Hudsons for now but still lurk on the forum. The last one I had was a '53 Hornet, which has the larger engine but otherwise the drive train was identical to yours. We drove it on many long trips and whenever I drove (as opposed to my uncle) I kept up a 70-75 mph cruise with no issues except gas mileage, which drops quite a bit as you get over 60. It's quite a bit more car than a 40s-50s Chevy, IMO.

Put a timing chain in it for sure, and do a valve job. Be careful about head gasket installation. If necessary, get someone who knows Hydramatics to service your transmission. It is a fine transmission but rather different than a modern one. 

Having said that, if I get another Hudson and start modifying it, I will def install a 700R. But you don't need it. You can drive a Hudson anywhere you like. Have fun. 

53_supwasp

Thanks for the feed back guys ! 

Ive taken a closer look and all the frame is solid but the frame in the rear from just after where the leaf springs attach back under the trunk floor is Pratt’s much gone . 

Is this his too much to be worth fixing like was mentioned in earlier posts ? 

Pretty much looks like like I need the drivers side pan/ toe board , the rear frAme section I just mentioned and a little bit of the trunk pan ... or if it’s better the whole trunk pan .  The rest is just the coarse rust scale on the under side of the car . 

railknight

I purchased a nice, body and interior wise, '53 Super Wasp sedan five and a half years ago and one of the things that sold me on the car was that it had a good, rear perimeter frame.  And even then, the rear frame need a little body work performed by Doug Wildrick. 

One other engine item not to overlook it the oil pump gear that connects with the distributor and crankshaft.  These gears, I believe made of brass, wear down over time and then the gear teeth can break off possibly contaminating the oil supply in the oil pan.  New and NOS gears are available from several Hudson parts suppliers. 

My Super Wasp has a three speed manual with overdrive.  It cruises on interstate highways nicely at 70 mph indicated (about 65 actual).   Yeah, join the Hudson Club locally and nationally!

Dan

53_supwasp

This is the rear frame ... are you saying that the rear frame neededIng work isn’t great but  isn’t a deal breaker then ?

Glowplug

My website has information that will show you what repair of your frame will entail. http://hudsonrestoration1948-54.com/index.html 

You will I’ll find the links under Frame Repair.

53_supwasp

I think the links may be broken on the page noted . But glad that all is not lost potentially .

Jon B

Mike, you need to take stock at this point.  Unless you work with metal, you will need to have someone rebuild this frame.  There are people out there (we have one, in this area) who are surprisingly good and quite reasonable in price, and you can ask around amongst your old-car or streetrod friends to find who that is.  You could then take these photos to him and ask for an estimate.  However, you'll probably be spending a good deal of money just to get the frame done.  And that's before you start on the rest of the car.

If you're intrigued by StepDowns, you can probably find one whose body is in much better condition, for less than it would cost you to have the frame repaired on this one.  That other car would provide a solid basis for a restoration.  Then, you can use the parts from your '53 to restore this "new" Hudson.  The least you could do is contact someone in the Chicago-Milwaukee chapter and ask if they know of such a car for sale.  Often, these things are not advertised, and you find out about them only by word of mouth.  It's certainly worth a phone call or e-mail to find out.

Glowplug

You need to have a PDF reader associated with your browser.  If you use Chrome the pages do not display without a PDF plug in as that browser does not support PDFs. The links are all good just checked with I Explorer, Firefox and Chrome.  Exact answers are on those pages.  A buddy of mine just finished resurrecting a hudson 2 Dr Hardtop whose frame was held together by rust on rust.  Self taught his work is outstanding and improved on Factory manufacturing.  This is s hobby and all aspects can be fun.  Good luck

triman62

53_supwasp said:

This is the rear frame ... are you saying that the rear frame neededIng work isn’t great but  isn’t a deal breaker then ?

I don't think it is a deal breaker anything can be fixed. I did my own repair to that area after looking at the pictures on old farmers website . it took me approximately  25 hours  per side  to fix with minimal tools. I really think yours can be fixed, but don't know how much it would cost to pay someone to do it. Good luck with your project, hope you enjoy it as much as I do mine. Check out my build thread on this forum if you get a chance. Good luck with your project. Link below, thanks preston-triman62                                                                                                                                                                                                              https://openforum.hetclub.org/discussion/168295/51-hornet-project-with-pictures/p1               

RichardD

Amazing to me that you are describing something continuously without posting photos that would certainly show what you are trying to say.

Edit: I see excellent photos now; thanks, sure helps~~

53_supwasp

RichardD said:

Amazing to me that you are describing something continuously without posting photos that would certainly show what you are trying to say???

Wow ok  ... my post at 9:38 am today there are clearly files attached to show the damage . If they aren’t displaying I wasn’t aware and apparently need to apologize . 

If the attachments aren’t working you just have to give me a heads up and I’ll do my best to remedy the situation . 


I was getting responses to the damage so I was thinking the attached images were working . 

I will I’ll take a look from a regular desktop computer

ski4life65

Maybe Richard has an issue with his browser, but I can see the pictures fine.

Ol racer

I can see the pictures fine as well and details nicely how this common rusted area can be repaired.

RichardD

Thanks for putting photos there; excellent, very explanatory.

iceblade10

Yikes... that frame damage would scare me... As others said, you can probably find a nicer stepdown out there that would be cheaper in the long run...

onerare39

Mike,

I'd like to send you a complimentary copy of the White Triangle News, the official publication of the Hudson Essex Terraplane Club.  Follow the instructions in this link.

https://openforum.hetclub.org/discussion/165267/consider-joining-the-hudson-essex-terraplane-club#latest

Welcome aboard 

John Forkner