Pertronix Question

50C8DAN

I am having a major problem with my '54 Hornet.  When it gets hot it will not start.  You can drive it but when you shut it off it will not restart until it cools down. I thought it was vapor lock but that it not it.  I even installed a booster fuel pump to help out and still has the problem.  So now I am looking at the ignition.  It was changed to a Pertronix before I got it.  I have tried replacing the coil and that has not helped, replaced coil wire no go.  So I am looking to replace the Pertronix, but now I see they only list one unit for the Hudson and I assume it is for 6V positive ground. Anyone know if there is a cross over number for 12V negative ground?

thanks

JasonNC

1362 for Chrysler slant six.  

tbeilke

Have a Pertronix on my 54 Hornet 12V negative ground for several years with no issues.

50C8DAN

Yes I just found out you need to add a suffix P6 If you want 6V positive ground as all come as 12V std.

KustomKreeps

i had a similar issue on my 52 Buick straight 8. But it would also surge a bit at highway speeds.
I also first thought Induction and put in a new fuel pump, filters etc.
then thought ignition. re did wires, plugs, coil, and changed from points to pertronix.
in the end it turned out to be my oil filter.
100miles or so before this happened I did an oil change. Changing from the tractor canister oil filter I had been using to one that Summit and other Buick sites recommended.
Swapped back to my one made for old tractors and away it went better than ever.
Guessing the Buick filter was to tight a micron for my system.

You can always go back to points I guess. I carry a set of points in all my Pertronix cars & all I need to put them in and set them.(standard stuff in any old car tool box)

Glowplug

50C8DAN said:

I am having a major problem with my '54 Hornet.  When it gets hot it will not start.  You can drive it but when you shut it off it will not restart until it cools down. I thought it was vapor lock but that it not it.  I even installed a booster fuel pump to help out and still has the problem.  So now I am looking at the ignition.  It was changed to a Pertronix before I got it.  I have tried replacing the coil and that has not helped, replaced coil wire no go.  So I am looking to replace the Pertronix, but now I see they only list one unit for the Hudson and I assume it is for 6V positive ground. Anyone know if there is a cross over number for 12V negative ground?

thanks

Did you find the gremlin?  If so what was it?  

Just to share a bit or my history, when a teen and driving all the old stuff my parents or what my meager wages could afford, my driving experiences were full of opportunities to analyze why my ride would not go or it left me stranded.  One particular event I remember was ignition related. The failure manifested itself as the engine quitting at about 40 mph...  causing me to coast the car to the side of the road.   I noted that as usual, my fuel gauge read empty.  So, I hopped out grabbed my gas can and started in the direction of the nearest town.  In those days one could expect a ride from a passerby and true to that expectation I was picked up taken to the local gas station and the good Samaritan took me back to my car. Pouring the gas into the tank I was confident that with a few spins the engine would jump to life. NO SUCH LUCK.  The same person who took me to the gas station observed all this and said... DOES IT HAVE SPARK?   I though now that is not something I thought of... so off came the wire from the coil and as the new found friend cranked the engine I observed no spark from the coil.  Shaking wires and looking around proved to not find any culprits.  But after we pulled the other end of the wire we found that the metal connector had somehow disappeared.   Looking into the end of the coil we found that spark was jumping around inside the coil tower and had carbonized the end of the coil connection.  Using my pocket knife I scrapped the coil connection, reassembled without the connector and when the key was turned the engine came back to life.  Later I was to learn from my mechanic friend that when a coil heats the resistance of the connections increases;  reducing coil performance.  That day was also a bit warmer, so it was assumed the coil failed to operate due to the carbon in the connection and the higher heat.  Maybe something like this is plaguing your vehicle?

50C8DAN

Oldfarmer thanks for the info.  I am also suspecting the coil although the garage where it is for now, as I am traveling and no chance to work on it myself, put in a new coil, but I don't know the resistance.  Pertronix requires a low resistance coil so it may be the problem.  I just bought a new Pertronix and a high voltage low resistance coil to go with it.  

For my story, back in 1975 I had a '66 Chevelle with a 283 V8.  I drove it to work one night came out and tried to start it, not a lick of problems prior, and it would not even fire.  After a while I called my Dad at 11pm got him out of bed to come and tow me home, rope, what a ride.  Anyway, the next day my Dad and I worked and worked on it. We checked everything and nothing got it to fire.  The neighbor stopped by and happened to have a cap and rotor kit in his truck for Chevy V8.  We popped on the new cap and varoom!  My Dad shook his head as he had looked and looked over the cap.  He took it out and sprayed some lighter fluid in it and lit it up.  After the flame went out you could see a hairline crack in the top of the cap from the inside.  It was almost invisible but it was there.

Val

Are you running solid core plug wires? If so they will not work with pertronix. It will cause total failure of the pertronix system is what the pertronix people told me. I went back to points and all is well. 

Geoff

Murphy's Law states" Any component fitted to enhance performance will have an inverse effect on reliability".  I have been driving my Essex for 62 years with standard 6 volt ignition with points, and had only one failure in  that time, when  the original coil failed in 1978.  Been driving the Jet for 46 years, and replaced the points once.  Go figure.

50C8DAN

Val I had checked the wires and they are not solid core, but thanks for the question.

Val

50C*DAN  ok well to let you know I got about 500 miles out of my unit before I had to put points back in. I spoke with Dr Doug about it yesterday and he says he really doesn't like that system as it doesn't last that long. Good luck to you and hope its an easy inexpensive fix

Per

Dan,

     Is this a car you have have had a long time?  If so, did this problem happen gradually or suddenly?

     If you have not had the car long, it is possible the engine has a problem which annoyed me a lot in the old days:  a smooth running engine that would start normally when it had not run for a while, but when hot would be hard to start or impossible to start except with a push.  

     A sign of this condition is that the car turns faster than normal on the starter when it is warmed up, but doesn't start. The problem is that the rings behave in such a way as to cause loss of compression when  warmed up a lot.  My first Hudson was a '51 Hornet with automatic shift.  I carried a second six volt battery to momentarily put in series with the car's battery to start the car when hot (I got a little acid on me doing this!).  The engine ran very smoothly.  Friends had a '46 Dodge and a '41 Ford that had the same problem, and I had a '48 Plymouth which was OK until I drove too fast on a long trip and caused it to behave this way.  Valve jobs were often done on such engines to try and cure the symptom, without success if this was really the problem.

     Some years ago a friend performed an experiment.  He heated rings from several engines which behaved this way, with a torch.  He also heated new rings of the same kind.  The new rings expanded.  The old rings contracted!
          
Per

Nevada Hudson

Yes, Doug Wildrick told us he doesn't recommend Pertronix.

33kc1989

I’ve heard more bad than good. Personally I’d never run a pertronix.  

50C8DAN

Well my Hornet is back on the road and it appears that it was a bad coil.  I did some work on this and from most inputs an overheating coil is the culprit for many Pertronix problems, and mine was also.  The garage working on it just picked up a 12V coil from NAPA and that was also a mistake, it needs to be a low resistance coil, not just any coil.  Also, although my coil was not horizontally mounted, that is also a mistake you should not make.  Anyway, the Petronix unit is working as it should again.

KustomKreeps

And the Hudson flys again.