Nuts & Bolts

BigSky

Does Anyone make nut & bolt kits?  I’ve seen these for the mainstream makes & models just not Hudson. Specifically I’m needing for 37 Hudson.  

If no kits, how can I determine what was what on my 37?

KustomKreeps

for what? like the WHOLE car? Front end & guards? engine? inside and under dash? doors? its a fricken lot of bolts on an old car. New cars its glue mostly.

Do you have your old ones? Are they still on the part? Or are they removed and put in labeled bags.

I normally just get a selection and go down to the fastener/ bolt shop and get 50 of each size with nuts, washers and lock washers near the start of the project.

Sure it might cost a few bucks and you may not need that many but they come in handy for other projects normally. Often you will find you will be back at the shop to get inbetween or odd sizes or even extras of the more mainstream selections.

As I pull panels the correct size bolt or better gets replaced as I go. Even if its just lose in the hole of the part that is being stored away untill it gets put back on the car in the future. photos are also taken and the old bolts put in a bag that is labled with a description of what/where it came from. Can be years latter and sometimes you forget where it all went.

Sometimes you need a slightly smaller size. you can be cheap and cut one of the bolts to suit or take it down to the shop an get X amount of that next size down.

Remember its good practice to have at least 2 full turns of the bolt protruding through the other side of the nut.
odd fact for ya - in NZ the legal requirement is 13 full turns of a wheel nut or more.

but as for your question- i would be surprised if a kit was about. just get some bolts. use the size that fits the hole with out much wiggle/play. make sure its long enough for the washers and nut and a bit of thread on the other side.

Jon B

If you mean a kit of precisely all the nuts and bolts used in a 1937 Hudson. I'm sure the answer is "no".

Often the parts book will have descriptions and quantities of the fasteners used on many of the components in the car. I think there is one available as part of the internet library that the Club offers on its website. Assuming you're an H-E-T member you can download one for free.

Barring that you can probably find one on Ebay or at one of the antique auto literature vendors, most of whom have websites. Like Autolit.com .

Lance

BigSky said:

Does Anyone make nut & bolt kits?  I’ve seen these for the mainstream makes & models just not Hudson. Specifically I’m needing for 37 Hudson.  

If no kits, how can I determine what was what on my 37?

If you are really intersted I can sell you about 70lbs worth of which about 85-90% are for Hudson. You can figure out where they are to go but that will be part of the fun.

BigSky

Initially, this began as I was trying to get the old 37 Hudson Business Coupe (model 73) running again after 15 years of sitting idle.  So after a carb & fuel pump rebuild plus a tank cleaning I did get her going again.   Since it wouldn’t idle after warmed up it looked like an intake leak, but I couldn’t find it, so time to dismantle it came.    

I thought I was only taking off the intake & exhaust manifolds to fix what was thought to be a gasket intake leak.  It turned out that there was a ball valve at the bottom of the intake which was missing & sucking air in, which wouldn’t allow it to idle after warming up.  Finding this was definitely an “aha” moment.  From there it became a bit of a “Well, I might as well while I’m this far do...”.   Thankfully this lead me to discover the reasons why the former owner had over heating issues, lack of thermostat, bypass not closed off to the water pump & incorrect hole sizes in the water jacket. 

Once I decided to repaint the exhaust & Intake manifolds, well that naturally lead to repainting pretty much everything on the engine.  So with everything looking so good I didn’t want to just throw on rusty old fasteners.   However, since this Hudson is only 1 of 3 surviving model 73 Hudson Business Coupes per Robbie Williams (15 years ago conversation), I wouldn’t feel right throwing on some Chinese parts on my American made Hudson as I don’t know if I will stray towards a street rod with this coupe or not.  

Thus began the process of restoring as many of the fasteners as I could in case I decided sometime to restore her to 100% original.  Figuring out the finishes needed on these different fasteners has caught me in a snag to move forward.  Ideally I’d like to come as close as possible to the original as I could unless there was a good reason not to do so.  Such as the water jacket fasteners, I’m keeping those the polished stainless steel they currently are, as I believe it will be a nice look on the engine & I don’t have originals to reinstall.  

I’ve gone thru most of my fasteners retroactively & have them now bagged & labled for each part and not taking photos is a huge lesson learned.  Some are broken, some are missing, (go figure I lost them) but most have been media blasted & wire wheeled clean.  Thus, since there are no nut & bolt kits, my question is how were these nuts & bolts finished by the factory?  “Those” being the fasteners used in the “engine compartment”, such as the ones related to the starter, generator & brackets, water pump, fan, pulley & attachments, thermostat housing, carburetor, etc.  I’d like to know what things looked like when new so I can decide if I will follow that or not.  Hope that clarifies things some.   

Jay_G

I am not sure about the 1 of 3 existing business coups but there are fewer of them than my model 77. I have not taken my 77 completely apart but I have noticed that Hudson seemed to use SAE fine thread for a lot of their fasteners. As for the finish of each nut and bolt sound like you are trying to go concourse...... good luck and will the judges really know if the bolt is cad or zinc plated...... they will just look to see that it is appropriate for the era.

Yea, the little drain valve on the intake manifold is one of those strange things they don't tell you about in auto shop. It can be troublesome if you don't know it is there. I left mine in place but plugged it so it would not leak air. I also ran the drain pipe down the side of the engine for looks. I figure a good rebuilt carb should not flood that much and if it does I really need to fix the problem.

I second the comment about getting a few boxes of nuts and bolts. Remember many will be painted from the factory anyway. The nice thing about the 30s cars is the bolt sizes are for the most part the same today as they were back them. In the teens the bolt heads and nuts were significantly thicker. So it does not look right to have a modern bolt on a teens vehicle.

Just my 2 cents. If you really get crazy remember no Philips head screws in 37. They were all straight. Now try and find the correct ones.... Sorry no help here. My point is restoring these cars is a compromise or it can become a real money pit.

Jay

charles4d

You only get out of  what you put into it use quality  not junk   junk = quanty  my 2 cents

KustomKreeps

eak you sound like some landdrover guys who get all stary eyed "WW2 British airforce rivets!! they used those on series 1 landdrovers. MUST HAVE!" and will then go spends 10x the amount on rivits that look like any other rivit.

Save your self a heap of heart ache and either replace with new or use the ones you have tarted up. a SAE bolt aint changed much as far as im aware.

Assemble everything then paint the part so they get covered up. No idea if this is what hadson did but really it will only be that 1 person out of a 100million that may know. Everyone else wont be paying much attention to bolts. Its paint & shiny shit that will get there attention.

also remember back in the day they kinda got thrown together. the dude who day in and day out just slapped something in a hole didnt really caring to much.

Jon B

Going back to my earlier suggestion to consult the parts book: here's the sort of specific information it would give you. For the water jacket, it shows that the bolt is a 5/16"-18 x 5/8" bolt, that is used with a washer. It doesn't tell you it's a hex-head (or whether the head is thin or thick); you'd have to discover that on its own. And it won't tell you the manufacturer's stamped symbols on the face of the head, if you're a real stickler for originality. But at least you'll know the thread size and length. So, if this sort of info is useful, you'll find it in the parts book, available online.

The only other thing I can suggest, is to find someone else with a restored Hudson or Terraplane who lives not far from you, and ask his / her permission to come out and inspect their engine. There is no guarantee that the restorer "got it right" but if you examine two or three such engines you may notice a similarity in fasteners. (My guess is that the Hudsons and Terraplanes used exactly the same fasteners, so either a restored Hudson or Terraplane would suffice for this inspection.)

RL Chilton

Jay G and Jon B above are spot on everything they told you.

As Jon pointed out, if what interests you is having the exact type of bolt in each of the holes on the car, with the correct stampings on top of the head, then you will have to find an unmolested car of your year type and take pictures and notes and then scour Hudson people's parts bins to find the correct bolts for their original locations.

I know this because that is precisely what I did on my '52 Hornet. For some odd reason I thought it would be important for posterity's sake. Later, I realized I went through all of that trouble because I'm an idiot. Truth be told though, it was fun doing the research and "solving the puzzle". But that won't be happening again, that's for sure.

And yes, Fine threads are most prevalent on these cars. You won't find them at your local hardware store.

BigSky

Thank you all for such great advice.  Yes, sometimes I can get hung up on things that later I realize aren’t really all that important in the end.  I did print out a copy of the parts book & your right, it is very helpful to at least know what I need to get.  

I’m trying hard to keep my eye on goal, which is to get this coupe back on the road to enjoy after sitting idle for the 15 years I’ve owned her!

RL Chilton

BigSky said:

Thank you all for such great advice.  Yes, sometimes I can get hung up on things that later I realize aren’t really all that important in the end.  I did print out a copy of the parts book & your right, it is very helpful to at least know what I need to get.  

I’m trying hard to keep my eye on goal, which is to get this coupe back on the road to enjoy after sitting idle for the 15 years I’ve owned her!

I think that's a healthy, positive outlook. Keep your eye on the prize. Smaller weekend projects that help detail the overall project can always be done after you reach your goal.