What the heck?!

edsel400

I'm stumped.  My '50 Pacemaker has spark at the points, but not at the plugs.  New coil, newish plugs and wires.  In fact, newish everything under a newish distributor cap.  Sucker was running fine a few days ago.  Could it be the condenser?!

Here's the car:

charles4d

Coil could be bad

lostmind

Is there spark from the coil secondary wire? 
Might be bad rotor or faulty cap. 
If no spark from wire you could have a bad coil. Check for power at coil terminal.
If you have old parts try substituting

54coupe

I have put a cap on after replacing points and forgot to even put the rotor back.... embarrassing mistake, but an honest one ... Could you have done the same?

edsel400

Thanks for the advice!  The coil is brand new.  The car has the same symptoms as with the old coil.  The rotor's definitely in place.  I've never had a distributor cap (or rotor) go bad, but it's definitely worth checking.   I'll swap with some old ones and see.

ernie28

I had my 50 Pacemaker just stoped one night. It ended up being the rotor that had given up the ghost. Replaced and all was good again. 

ratlee2

I have seen a defective cap before.  It had the inside and outside teminals, but the coil terminals had no continuity.  I also had a case where the car would run rough after it warmed up.  I replaced the cap and rotor and the new rotor was a 1/4" longer.

cchancel

I've had a cap drop the inside, center contact to the rotor.  Once that happens, it will be as you describe.

edsel400

It sure is good being able to learn from other peoples' experiences.  There's a new rotor, condenser and cap on the way.  We'll soon see (I hope)...

superwasp

So, on a related note... I've had a heck of a time finding decent points and condensers in recent years. There is a lot of Chinese junk out there that's questionable when new. I had one set of points corrode over their first winter to the point of being non-conductive. My point is to consider buying a second set for the shelf if you bought modern stuff.

edsel400

I recently ordered from these guys: https://brillman.com/  The parts haven't arrived yet, so I don't know if they sell Chinese junk or not.  Rock Auto carries a few Hudson items,  but my past experiences with them haven't always been that great.  NOS is by far the best way to go.

BigSky

Had this happen to me:  the square head got turned & was grounded out after replacing points.  

edsel400

That's a really good thing to be aware of.  Is your condenser mounted on the outside of the distributor?  

BigSky

Yep, it’s also a lesson that took 3-4 hours to figure out!

50C8DAN

Back in the day, circa 1975, my '66 Chevelle one night after a meeting just would not start.  I had to call my Dad and we pulled it home.  I worked on it the next morning, nothing, my Dad who is a fare mechanic (since we lived on a farm) also worked all evening on it, nothing.  Our neighbor stopped by and happened to have a tuneup kit for a SBC, one of those everything kits.  Well put on the new cap and bingo everything back to normal.  My Dad took the old cap and squirted some lighter fluid in it and lit it up, an extremely small crack, almost invisible could be seen on the inside.  Always kept that in mind if there is an ignition problem.

edsel400

To me, it's all rocket science.  I understand that cracked distributor caps cause big trouble, but what I don't understand is why, especially a hairline crack.  Anyway, I'll see if mine's cracked.  (I hope it is, for the sake of a quick diagnosis.)

edsel400

Aw heck.  Brillman sent the wrong distributor cap.  Luckily, I had two new ones on the shelf that I forgot about.   Anyway, new cap, rotor and coil, and still no dice.  Just waiting for the condenser to arrive so I can rule that out as well.  The plugs and wires are still relatively new.  Good clean gap in the points, too.  Something funny's going on here.  I can usually get these things sorted, but so far, not so good.

cchancel

One significant thing not mentioned here is that if the car has an overdrive, a damaged component in its electrical circuit (e.g. grounded out wire to the kick down switch) could prevent the coil from functioning properly. It is designed to be able interrupt ignition in order to disengage the overdrive during an engine acceleration.  A quick way of testing this is to disconnect the overdrive kickdown switch wire from the distributor and then see if you get a spark.

edsel400

Thanks.  A new condenser should arrive tomorrow.  I've got my fingers crossed that it takes care of this problem.  (I had a brand new (Chinese) one fail in an Edsel once, just a few days after it was installed.  Had to call AAA.)  As for OD, my Pacemaker doesn't have it, but I appreciate the suggestions just the same.  Whenever the car's back in service, I'll let you know what the problem was.

onerare39

My 54 died at a cemetery a few years ago!  It would not start after the graveside service was over.  The car had run fine all day prior to this happening.  Luckily there were other Hudson folks there and upon inspection by fellow chapter member Jamie, he diagnosed it to be a bad rotor.  He had a spare, replaced it and it fired right back up.  Jamie, the life-saver in a cemetery!
 

edsel400

What a place to die, heh heh.  I wasn't as fortunate with my car.  I swapped the rotor with a brand new one, and still no good.   The only thing left is the condenser.  Fingers (and toes) are crossed.  It should be here tomorrow.

superwasp

So, for what it's worth... I picked one of these up on ebay for less than $20.00 complete a few years ago. My neighbor laughed at me when he saw it on my work bench. Best dang $18.75 I think I've ever spent on tools. It really does make chasing down ignition issues much easier.

Glowplug

In the hunt for ghost problems with a points ignition there is an often overlooked piece that WILL cause the same problem being experienced when a condenser fails. The “black wire” shown in the Hudson distributor is originally a cloth covered wire which can short rendering the points useless.  The red wires are replacements for that wire.  

edsel400

I used stranded metal.  The plug wires are about a year old.  The car was running like a Swiss watch until the problem cropped up.  The parts I've replaced so far were still fairly new.  We'll get it, though.

edsel400

Got tired of waiting for the FILKO condenser to arrive and grabbed one from the local NAPA store, an Echlin AL868.  It has a flat copper strap instead of a wire, something that's new to me.  I'll put it on the car tomorrow.  Fingers crossed....

edsel400

It was the condenser!  Now I'm planning to go ahead and change the plugs if I can find three more Champion J7s.   (I have three on the shelf).  If anyone out there has some, please give me a shout!  Thanks.  

Glowplug

Thanks for the update 

lostmind

edsel400 said:

It was the condenser!  Now I'm planning to go ahead and change the plugs if I can find three more Champion J7s.   (I have three on the shelf).  If anyone out there has some, please give me a shout!  Thanks.