7-X engine buildup in progress

Unknown

Folks I am having a 51 308 opened up by .060, cam

reground to 311040, hei added and maybe a efi to boot!

Here are some of the things that will be done to the eng.



This is not simply a copy of the legendary 7x engine, but a

modern High Tech version designed and built to showcase the

new line of Uncommon Engineering 7X+ components, and to

provide exceptional modern performance and unleaded fuel

reliability from Hudson’s finest hour.



These engines have new modern oversize Stainless Steel

1.647 ex valves, 2.00" INT w/ 30 deg seats, hard exhaust

seats, new CNC Alum / Bronze valve guides, New High Perf

valve springs and retainers, ARP 190,00 PSI rod bolts, highest

quality three ring Forged Pistons and pins, Cloyes True Roller

Timing set, Uncommon 7X+ exclusive grind special

performance cam of your choice, machined for 1/2" Gr8 head

bolts and Gr 8 washers, and includes the new wider and

shallower high turbulence relief geometry developed

specifically for the Fabulous 8X GMC 6-71 supercharged Hornet

engine.



Ports are enlarged and matched, and each relief is hand

finished just like the originals. Additionally, each block is

cleaned, blasted, magnafluxed, bored, CK-10 honed, and

decked. Cranks are magnafluxed and main and rods journals

ground and radiused. Heads are resurfaced, or exchanged

depending on desired compression ratio, subject to

availability and condition of core. New main, rod, cam

bearings, and oil pump gear. Stroker cranks (at extra cost)

available for displacements up to an incredible 362 cubic

inches! This is the Hudson engine for those who must have

the best, without exception.



These engines are designed to offer absolutely smooth high

performance, incredible torque and acceleration, extremely

long life comparable to modern unleaded engines, and

genuinely affordable rebuildability. Due to the extensive use

of modern materials, and readily available replaceable

components, these engines survive the continuous use of

unleaded fuel that has proven so destructive to many other

rebuilt Hudson engines. This is a New Millenium version of the

Fabulous 7X, and it’s available exclusively from Uncommon

Engineering. Aftermarket connecting rods, stroker cranks,

align honing, billet cams & oversized tappets, and other

special vintage racing mods are available at extra cost.







Thanks,

John Williams

Unknown

In the late 1940s Amoco (now BP-Amoco) introduced a premium unleaded gasoline. I would be interested in your comments and thoughts as to Amoco premium unleaded of those early years and the unleaded gasoline that destroyed Hudson engines as you referred to in your post.

Unknown

email me and I'll give you my comments

jgw2@bellsouth.net

Unknown

One thing I can tell you, Mr. "Anonymous", is that just
yesterday it was relayed to me that a certain '52 HW,
being driven from the Washington, DC, area, following a
recent purchase, and enroute to Tn via the Hudson Natls,
blew up/failed, essentially, just before arriving home. If
that engine had been rebuilt prior to the trip as I am
having mine rebuilt I assure you it would be essentially
indestructive! ... and it would be ready to roll NOW,
not sitting there waiting for an engine exchange. If you
want the person's name, e-mail me and I'll contact the
person and ask that person to contact you as that person
knows you, Mr. "Anonymous", just like I do!! Although
I've never met you, we've corresponded via e-mail, so
if and when I receive your e-mail, I'll know what it's
about. I won't hold my breath waiting on your e-mail
because I don't expect you to correspond with me, ever
again. It's up to you.

John G Williams
7584 Foster Ridge Rd
Germantown, TN 38138-7016

901 755-2011

jgw2@bellsouth.net

Unknown

lead was added for 2 reasons,first to help stop pinging and detonation,later it was found to help valves (especially the exhaust) transfer heat to the cooling system.i read an article on lead/unlead awhile back (wish i knew where,i would reference it here) they found that while lead helped engines in those two ways,it also accelerated the wear of cylinders and pistons/rings.i think we are better off without lead,as i find it a lot easier to do a valve job than a bore job.having hardened exhaust seats doesn't cost all that much,couple that with stainless valves,and i think you'll save money in the long run-george

Unknown

Hi John,
Its very commendable that you're having your engine done in such a performance mode and sharing your findings. Steve Farkaly is well known in the Hudson club for his engineering modifications.
Regarding the leaded/unleaded gas question, Hudsons were designed to run on the cheapest possible fuel with the lowest octane. The idea of the time was that if it ran on this fuel, it could perform on any fuel (from Harry Kraus's book) As the compression is so low on a stock engine (which is what about 90% of us have, I believe) the point seems to be moot. Unleaded fuel should work fine in a stock 6.7 to 1 engine with no long term problems.

Unknown

Hi John,

I have a better name, that built my 7x street engine...Jack Clifford. Now Jack told me unleaded gas was never a problem for Hudson blocks because of the hard chrom steel that was used. We talked about hardened valve seats and Jack felt it was a waste of money. Now good SS valves was another story. My impression from him and the problems of my old tired engine had to do with burned and cracked valves. I am sure these came from unleaded gas and running lean. Just a thought.

Jay G

Unknown

Mr. Williams, I certainly did not intent to cause a problem with my gasoline question, however, you have me confused with someone else, as we have never communicated. I am not able to communicate with you via e mail, as I am using my employer's computer and do not have my own PC. The only reason for my question was that I have been collecting service station memorabilia for some time and found your post about your engine rebuilding very interesting. From your post it seemed that by your expertise that you would be able to answer my question. I am not registred with this forum, as I do not own a Hudson automobile. I do visit the Hemmings site and through their links am able to read about antique automobiles. I thank the others who answered my question for their patience for what was probably, in retrospect, a naive question. I would rather not leave my name and mailing address on an internet site as you have done as I do not feel confortable doing so. If my question caused a problem, I apologise.

[Deleted User]

John,

Meet me at the tree if you dare.


R.M.

Unknown

Randy, I'll meet you at the tree but only to buy another roller chain for my next buildup.

hehe

EssexAdv

IN the 70's I worked in an American station (they did not become Amoco until the late 80's on the east coast) and we sold 2 grades of unleaded gas...regular and 103 octane premium. One day we were visited by a petro-engineer. I asked him the same questions about lead. He correctly told me that Octane was the rating for anti-knock.. Leaded or unleaded octane rating was the same thing ... a number assigned to the anti knock properties of the fuel. It didn't matter if the fuel was leaded or unleaded what did matter was the octane rating. People erroneously relate octane to power output; this is wrong.



I wasn’t convinced. But I have now consulted others and found this to be true. Check out http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm and http://api-ec.api.org/about/index.cfm?objectid=4218DF26-FFDF-4A44-90410F150BF14E4E&method=display_body&er=1&bitmask=001002001000000000



As far as valve recession, I asked Bernie Seigfried. For those of you who never met Bernie, he was a Hudson engineer who worked on the 308 motor. He too said that you did not need hardened seats on a Hudson motor. He said that the modern seats were actually softer than the Hornet block (pre 1955). Here again, I didn’t believe it. So when I had my 308 rebuilt, I asked my machinist to check it out. It didn’t take long for him to give me his answer. He needed to put inserts in 2 valve seats as they were cracked. He told me he wouldn’t do the reminder of the seats as he had a real hard time cutting the block with his standard tools (remember this was about 1976). I was convinced.



Another thing to think about is using stainless valves. Stainless valves require softer guides. Hudson motors don’t force oil into the valve chamber as do all modern motors. The lubrication of the valve guide area is insufficient to properly lubricate the guides. Therefore they will wear quicker than normal guides thereby requiring more frequent valve jobs. So your alteration to lengthen valve life will probably be counter productive.



People tend to forget the original engineering and just do what they are comfortable with; regardless of appropriateness to the job at hand. This mania to change the valve system is a perfect example. I have put hundreds of thousands of miles on pre 1972 cars with unleaded gas. None of my cars have suffered valve recession. However every one of them needed far fewer exhaust systems.



This is not to suggust that your motor rebuild is not a good idea, rather an attempt to get some information out and clear up a misconception.



In any case...good luck

Lew

Unknown

Let me wade in on this subject. I sort of grew up in my father's Amoco/American gas station. His first station was in Washington, DC on Nichols Avenue in the late 1940's. At that time the American Oil Company went by "Amoco". Later, in the late 1960's the name changed to "American" and later, back to "Amoco". Anyway, my father always said that the premium unleaded (or "white gas" as some people called it) cost more because it was refined more to boost the octane. I have no idea if this was true or not (probably was some gas station BS) but I do know that he always ran Amoco premium in all of his cars with no engine problems. He drove Hudsons, Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs. When I first started working at his station we had two grades, leaded regular in a red and white pump and premium unleaded in a navy blue and gold pump. In about 1970 a third grade was added in a baby blue and white pump which was an unleaded regular which was supposed to be for the "new emissions-controlled cars" of the day. Back in those days all gas stations seemed to have a sales gimmick and Amoco has a red tube attached to the nozzle called a "Final Filter" which actually did have a paper element filter in it. Sunoco had a dial to increase the octane rating, Gulf had "No-Nox" and everybody gave away trading stamps, plates, mugs glassware and free road maps. At any rate, when I had my engine rebuilt some years ago, I asked Jack Clifford about using a lead addative or changing the valves and he said not to waste my money that a Hudson would run on anything. I didn't mean to be so long winded, but this has become a trip down memory lane for me. I think I'll go find my old attendant shirt and see if it still fits.

Unknown

UPDATE: all the machine work is complete at this point; SS valves ordered 20 days ago and should be
rec'd any moment now. Anyone have any pros/cons on balancing the crankshaft????????????????????

Ordered the body paints (Coronation Cream and Lipstick Red) a couple days ago from Auto Color Library.

Last Monday I took the seats to the upholstery shop. Acme is building the headliner, in a Sesame (Cream)
and rebuilding the sunvisors; colors are from Visions; the red portions will be Cherry Jubilee. These colors
were selected to closely match the original, exterior paint colors.

On Tuesday I sent the instrument cluster to D & M for complete restoration, plus suttle enhancement (s) to
improve the internal lighting to improve vision for night driving (they have some tricks on some applications).

EssexAdv

Balance EVERYTHING! A good balance shop will balance pistons, rods, flywheel, harmonic balancer and the crank. You should have this done. It will improve performance as well as longevity. The cost of having a complete balance job on a Hornet in Maryland is about 200.00

Unknown

Lweis, I decided to have the crank balanced;
will update later to see if they found it out of balance.
Pistons are all the same, and so are the rods, apparently.
There did seem to "feel" like there was something "out"
while cruising; perhaps it was the torque convertor or pistons.
Not everything is at the rebuild shop w/Steve.

Unknown

Yeah, Lewis, the crankshaft definitely needed balancing and micro polishing too (.010/.010). So, it's going back together presently. Considering the Accel electronic fuel injection, but right now, I'd just be happy to hear it run again. That's an option for the future. Any of you guy's going to the Holley-NHRA Nostalgia annual reunion in Bowling Green next year? I'm looking for another Hudson to drag race, but not one with a 350 Chevy engine (Wes); hehe Have a good one, gang.
John

Unknown

I concur with the comments on unleaded gas. I did the engine up in my '28 Essex 20 years ago. These old blocks are nowhere near as hard as the later ones, but still better than the average car of the day. I did not fit seat inserts, just reground the seats. I average 5,000 miles a year, and so far I have not laid a spanner on the engine. I checked the tappets about 5 years ago, just to see, and they were still at the original settings. I have run this car on only unleaded gas, never had any additives. At around 100,000 mile sup it is now just starting to use some oil, so in the next few years Imay think about tearing it down for a set of rings, but expect to see the valves still in pristine condition. Incidentally, as far as parts interchangeability are concerned, I used Hudson Jet exhaust valves. These are composite construction, having stainless heads and ordinary steel stems. you can see the join in the stem where the colour changes. This means you don't get the guide wear with all-stainless construction. You've got to hand it to those old Hudson engineers, they had it sussed! All I had to so to use them in the Essex was ream out the guides to 11/32", deepen the collet groove in the valve stem and drill out the collet retainer.

Unknown

What is the Holley-NHRA Nostalgia annual reunion in Bowling Green? When?

Unknown

dwardo, here are a few URL's to read about it. Do you still have the 51 with the Oldsmobile engine in it?

http://www.ultimatestreetrods.com/html/021704-2.html

une 18-20, 2004 ? Holley NHRA National Hot Rod Reunion, Bowling Green, Kentucky.
The National Hot Rod Reunion returns to Bowling Green for the second year, with our unique mix
of nostalgic drag racing, street rods and the opportunity to meet the legends of our sport.

[Deleted User]

Once again John, I would be happy to meet you at the tree at the drags. Bowling green is not that far from here. I'll see if I can get away. I'll be easy on you John, I will bring my 7X '54 with Twin-H and Hydro. Are you up for it?

Randy Maas

Unknown

The Hot Rod reunion is usually the 3rd Weekend in June. I just live about an hour from Bowling Green and that event above all other mixed car shows is GREAT!!!!!!!

Actually, I'm shooting for having the Super Wasp up to final spec by then - and planned to run it down the strip anyway. It would be great to have a little Hudson company whether I make a decent showing or not.

About all I can inform about the setup is a slightly modified Twin-H with 5200 Holley/Webers and a T-5 Borg Warner hanging off the stock Hudson bellhousing. I'm doing the measuring/designing on the T-5 swap right now.

I haven't decided on the internals of the 308 yet, I want this to be a pretty decent daily driver - so it won't likely be way over the top. I'm paying more attention to torsional rebound and harmonics at present in helping the crank live past 5000.

This is shaping up to be some fun huh?

Mark Hudson

Unknown

Ok, you guys want to drag race, right? The only way I'll race any "beefed up" Hudson's is if you promise not to beat me over 1 (one) car length. You have to make sure your rear bumper does not get in front of mine. If you beat me farther than that it makes things look uncompetitive; plus, I'm likely to cry. I have only a totally stock Borg Warner, DG-200, so don';t expect my wheelie's to last over 30 yards, ok? Plus you must be running a stock Dana with 3.07 gearing. and you must drive it to and from the track as I will. Should I be lucky enough to beat you, I promise not to beat you by over one car length. I mean a WIn is a win, after all. I suspect the first time I get beat really BAD, I'll have to build another Hudson "SUPER SIX" (w/Buick T-Type (turbo-charged V6) driveline) for revenge. So, at the tree it will be!

Unknown

I don't like the most of those rules at all. Whomever wins by whatever distance - that's just the way it is. I'm not really looking to have a super hot Wasp, because I intend for this car to be regularly driven, not just to a race. I am going to use whatever rear ratio and tweak up the original suspension as I decide. It will all be according to how I want this car to handle and perform in my neck o' the woods and the conditions I most often drive. This particular car will most likely be an ever evolving automobile, but always Hudson to the core!

I'm studying possible rear ratios to work in conjunction with the T-5 (just gotta love that Dana flexibility), that is the only departure from anything uniquely Hudson I plan to do other than the brakes. The 5200 Holley/Webers are not that great a leap in the performance area as they will be adapted to the original WA-1 flanges, the cfm rating of the manifold won't be any different than an original Twin-H. They will just be a little more miserly, responsive down low, and easier to maintain in terms of parts availability/versatility.

I'll see you at the tree in June '05, but it will be in the Wasp I want, as I want it - win or lose.

Hudsonly,
Mark Hudson

Whomever wins, I'm gonna be a happy character to have raced and gotten together with some fellow Hudson performance enthusiasts. I'll take a loss as incentive to do better next time, a win would be elating.

Bottom line is this - make the "Big 3" cower in fear!

Unknown

Mark, those "rules" were aimed at Randy, cause he's running 100 mph at the 1/8th mile, and I'd be lucky to do 100 at the 1/4 mile; VERY lucky. I agree no rules ; it's all in fun. Looking forward to meeting you. The more Hudson's that show the better. I know of approx six already. Mark, what year model is your car?

John Williams

Unknown

The 100mph in the 1/8th mile time was posted by Randy's '41 coupe at just under 3000 lbs. That would be a 12-13 second 1/4 mile car at 112+ mph. No stock stepdown (3,500-3,800lbs) has ran the 1/4 mile under 14 seconds to my knowledge.....best is high 14's to mid 15's.

[Deleted User]

Ken is right. There is a mistake on our page, it should be 80 mph in the 1/8 mile. I run right at 100 mph in the 1/4 mile. 112mph is not realistic for 12's in the 1/4. Few other mistakes and mispellings will be corrected soon as we make new items available. If I go as I stated in my 9/3/04 message I would bring a 54 coupe 7X and twin H. The 7X is nothing more than a mild street motor by todays standard. It really is not a race motor. If I were serious I would bring out the '41. My main objective was to get Hudson guys together and have some fun at the track and have lunch together. Best I stay home. The boys at the local track don't get that upset with me when I may happen to beat them in their fords & chevs.

Randy

Unknown

Randy, we want you there. I was just joshing about rules. The more Hudson's the better. No one will get upset about getting beat in some drag race (that's inevitable - someone loses; it's ALL in fun. Hope to see you there.

John

Unknown

UPDATE, the engine is near completion; Steve added a remote oil filter (spin on/off type) to be located on the inner fender which is connected to the oil pump via AN8 fittings and AN8 stainless steel braided lines. The crankshaft was balanced, SS 7X valves were installed, port work to assure that it breaths well at the Bowling Green drag strip and on the highways of America (Walt), a 232 head, larger head bolts are utilized, etc. This week the painting began on the body shell (the Coronation Cream top is complete; next the Lipstick Red bottom), and next week the body parts will begin their prep work prior to painting. I should go pick up the engine by next week sometime. I will post a photo of the engine as soon as it is complete. It is painted the Duplicolor's "Ford Red", and all new bolts are left cadmium=plated for now.

Unknown

Picking the engine up tomorrow