Clifford Performance

464Saloon

I have heard of Clifford but never having a 6 cyl, I never paid much attention to them. A friend of mine sent over the link to them now that he knows I am getting a Hornet. They have a few Hudson parts, but really no descriptions or details. Has anyone here ever dealt with them or used their parts on their Hudsons? I found it interesting that they make a 4bbl manifold but not a two or three carb. No pictures of the headers or performance gain. No cam specs on any of their cams, so what the heck are you buying. $899.00 for an aluminum cylinder head?? That's more than most overheads and there is a lot more involved with an overhead. Is Jack Clifford still around there or anyone that has any knowledge of the Hudson motor?

Jay_G

You don't want to go there.....in so many ways. Check past threads on the subject of Clifford. Long..Long..Long story.



Jay

50C8DAN

I personally have never had any problems with Clifford Performance but a number of folks on this site have, and the general feeling is pretty negative. For many parts you can order from Randy Maas, http://21stcenturyhudson.net/ who is an HET member and long time Hudson drag racer. The other place is Uncommon Engineering, http://www.uncommonengineering.com/index.html, but the price is pretty steep.



If you order from Clifford you will need to make sure what you want is in stock since they appear to charge your credit card and then you wait until they make whatever is not in stock. I recently ordered a 3x2 Weber side draft manifold, it was in stock and I had it in a week.



Sadly Jack Clifford died several years ago and I am not aware that any of his family is still involved with the business.

Unknown

DSjsACKS SON IN LAW, A BEAUTICIAN BY TRADE IS TRYING, NOT TOO SUCCESSFULLY TO RUN THE OPERATION ON A SHOESTRING, BILL ALBRIGHT

464Saloon

I guess I will just wait until I get the car and decide if I need to do anything. 21st Century seems pretty expensive too. I know I can get the electronic ignition kit for much less. Some of the other stuff I am not sure.

[Deleted User]

Yes, I guess we are pretty expensive. Its not just the protroics kit for the amount we charge, it also includes a new rotor, distributor cap, and the resistor required. We also replace the bushings, media blast all the componets, resleeve the weights that are worn, lubricates all moving parts and reassemble and paint. Some days I think providing parts and services are not worth it. I look at my basement shelving with $7500 dollars worth of parts, custom made stainless steel valves (not bimetal) that I maybe make $4.50 a valve on--eight reground camshafts ready to ship so people don"t have to wait 3 weeks for a regrind and so on. I spend 3 to 3.5 hours on a dist. rebuild so whats my time worth? Not much I guess, but then some days people remark that they appreciate our efforts.



21stcenturyhudson

Randy

[Deleted User]

Hey Randy,



You have got one satisfied customer here. I know good and well its primarily a labor of love toward the Hudson engine, and I thank you for your efforts. We are not talking small block chevy engines here, but an engine that has not been in production for 50 years now. If you price stuff of the same quality for a sbc, Randy isn't out of range at all. The quality is great, the pricing is low for what you get.



Not to mention the tech advice, nothing but high marks in that area as well. My engine project would be nowhere without the parts and the helpful advice on things I had not considered. Experiance is everything - and Randy has it.



I appreciate all your help Randy.



Mark Hudson

464Saloon

Randy,



I assumed you were just selling the Pertronix unit, which I have done several conversions myself on a number of vehicles and boats. They generally run between 65 and 80 dollars, but depending on what else the dist needs can add up. If you are doing all that to the distributor, then that is a very friendly price. I don't think you mentioned doing all that in your catalog. I think I paid almost that two years ago to have my 68 442 and my 55 Ford F-100 units done. I had a local speed shop do them, because I wanted them checked for wear and put together with the right curve for the engines I have. Turns out they both needed a complete rebuilding and I think because I was having two done, they gave me a break. Around 170 a piece. Sorry for the misunderstanding and I will definately keep you in mind, when I get my Hornet here and see what I need/want to do.



rob

Unknown

maasfh wrote:

Yes, I guess we are pretty expensive. Its not just the protroics kit for the amount we charge, it also includes a new rotor, distributor cap, and the resistor required. We also replace the bushings, media blast all the componets, resleeve the weights that are worn, lubricates all moving parts and reassemble and paint. Some days I think providing parts and services are not worth it. I look at my basement shelving with $7500 dollars worth of parts, custom made stainless steel valves (not bimetal) that I maybe make $4.50 a valve on--eight reground camshafts ready to ship so people don"t have to wait 3 weeks for a regrind and so on. I spend 3 to 3.5 hours on a dist. rebuild so whats my time worth? Not much I guess, but then some days people remark that they appreciate our efforts.

21stcenturyhudson
Randy

There is without a doubt a general misconception that the cost to renew the mechanics on a ORPHAN vintage car like Hudson should be CHEAP. In the days when I was a Chevy and Pontiac Muscle car affectionato... the cost to get something I wanted amounted to many hours of my hard earned money going to one of dozens of sources who would take my money and provide a product that was commonly available.

Hudson on the other hand is a unique and one of a kind limited production vehicle. Throughout the life of the marque there were few vehicles manufactured and fewer folks who were available to provide mechanic skills to support keeping them running. It is amazing to me that Randy and some others are still willing to trust in the marque to the point they base their fiscal well being on what they can make providing service and otherwise unavailable parts.

We who are enamored with the Hudson marque, should strongly consider supporting folks who have taken the plunge and have made the parts, services and expertise available. Cost aside, getting the right part and the right service the first time should be considered when make a Hudson restoration decision. Like all other business people, making a profit is necessary to remain in business. If the profit margin is ZERO or negative the outcome is obvious.

I for one do not find Randy Mass expensive. He has honestly answered my questions and provided estimates of cost that allows me to determine feasibility of competing the remanufacture of engines. Knowing the person giving the estimate ... KNOWS HUDSON INSIDE and OUT ... is akin to choosing the right medical specialist for whatever ails you. So, l am joining Mark Hudson in support of Randy and ALL of the folks who have stuck by Hudson in spite of the ON THE CHEAP restoration attitudes that prevail.

Thanks to all who support Hudson!

... off the apple crate.

Geoff

This is unfortunately a fairly common attitude - "Let someone else have all the stuff I need, on hand, so I can get it insantly, and cheap". Here in N.Z. we have had people balk at the price of getting new cluster gears made for Essex transmissions @ $800 per set. But they would be happy for us to go ahead and get them done and be sitting on the shelf just in case they may need one some day. Take a modern car with a five-speed transmission in to get repaired, and see how much change you get of $2,000. Good on you all who provide spares and advice. The Biblical principal applies - "The labourer is worth his hire". However, to get back to the original thread - you don't normally get paid until the job is done. so the practice of first charging your credit card and then seeing if you can fill the order is definitely not good business practice. My 2 cents worth!

Geoff.

Jay_G

I do not mean to bash Clifford or not to pay for the talent and Randy, I love my timing chain and it was worth every penny. I just like communication when problems occur and they are bound to occur. For example I am have been waiting for over 1 1/2 years to get two mirror-matics rebuilt for my 60 dodge. Every time I call they have a new excuse. But they are the only guys I have found to rebuild them, so I put up with the wait. On the other hand they have not charged me for work they have not done. In fact I have no idea what they will charge. Sometimes you have to close your eyes and go for it.



Jay

[Deleted User]

I said it before on this site many times, we have to support the Hudson parts guys that are Hudson owners and part of the community we have here. I buy my parts from guys like Dave Kostansek and Dale Cooper. I am pulling two 308's apart and when I get the cams out they will be going to Randy for replacements. If I can get it from these guys first thats where I go. If they don't have it I look elsewhere. I don't give a crap if I can find it for $10 cheaper over there. You pay to support the efforts of guys trying to keep us in parts. Dale Cooper sent my parts in the box with the bill in it, he trusted me to pay, same when Janet Kale sent my parts. You aren't go to get that off some internet vendor. And Randy patiently answered my dumb-ass email questions. Its all about the Hudson family. Support your Hudson parts guys and they will support you. Thats my new slogan so nobody steal that....

50C8DAN

Randy:



Any chance you could talk Clifford Performance into selling you all their tooling and stuff so there would be a reliable source for the other high performance parts? I would think you could work out a deal to give them a royalty or something. They sure don't really give it much effort and you surely could.

[Deleted User]

Dan,



I have considered doing just that, however, I have heard they will not sell their molds. I have given some thought in having new molds made since I am in possession of a Gibbon-Binks two piece head--the same head Cliffored used to make the molds for the one piece head. The intake manifold has my attention also. Committment for orders?



Randy

dwardo99

I think we should all be grateful to the folks who go to the trouble to keep us in parts and services. If they manage to make some money at it, more power to them; that's the American Way. The fact is, these cars are half a century old at the youngest and it's remarkable to me that we can still order new parts, let alone go-fast stuff. For the most part, I think the parts situation now is better than it was 30 years ago when I first caught the disease. Maybe that's just because I have a little more money to spend ...

[Deleted User]

maasfh wrote:

Dan,



I have considered doing just that, however, I have heard they will not sell their molds. I have given some thought in having new molds made since I am in possession of a Gibbon-Binks two piece head--the same head Cliffored used to make the molds for the one piece head. The intake manifold has my attention also. Committment for orders?



Randy

If we had a universal designed header to fit both the short and long wheelbase stepdown, I'm sure that would go over good. I'd commit to one of those right now if it could be done for $450 or less.



I would like to see a remake of the '55 Twin-H manifold in aluminum and able to use 2 barrel carbs instead of the WA-1. I'd commit to one of those as well.



That is as far as I could go right now, but I would like to see a head option on the market. Earl Edgerton makes aftermarket heads for the mopar flatheads in the $650.00 range - very nice pieces!





Mark

464Saloon

I would be interested in the same things as Hudsonator.

SuperDave

Me 2,

Dave W.

Unknown

I like those short wheelbase headers. Also the head if it was repro'd. Maybe take orders up front with some $$ down to help with the tooling costs. I'm sure there would be takers if someone reputable (like Randy or Dale ) would take on the project.

hudsontech

A recent mention about Clifford on one of the egroups I belong to had me emailing the fellow who posted. I asked him his experiences with Clifford - in this case he was trying to buy some parts for a 291 cid DeSoto engine he has in a Valient -here's his reply on his dealings with Clifford:

"I wish I could say my experiences were all positive ones but I also have had a few problems. I ended up buying the parts I needed off EBAY and having linkages fabricated. I ordered the hyperpak and headers from Clifford in August. I got the hyperpak in Feb. even though it was paid for in August. I was told it was on back order every time I called. Still haven't got the headers (6 months after payment) although I bought some on EBAY."

(Name withheld by me)

Does some of this sound familiar??



Hudsonly,

Alex B

464Saloon

That is not unsurprising of an automotive aftermarket company, having worked for a couple myself. We should put our backing behind honest club members that have the ability to reproduce parts like Clifford and just blow Clifford off. They won't be taking my money and telling me tomorrow when tomorrow never comes.