Hudson convert headers

[Deleted User]

Just an "I wonder why..." question for the Hudson historians. Why did Hudson (and Packard) use such a large header on their convertables? Earlier cars all used a smaller header, which was (I think) more attractive. Possibly the mono-bilt engineering led to this design? If so, why Packard?

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Joe

harry54

From what I understand the reason they used the oversized header was for safety. The strength of the header was a selling feature. If a hudson convertible rolled over the winshield would not collapse.

[Deleted User]

Reading the Hudson engineering reports show that Hudson did not have the facilities to do a proper torsional analysis of the frame so when they created convertibles they added about 230 Ibs of reinforcement and a thicker header. The Hudson engineers always overbuilt instead of chancing any part of the car would fail.

Unknown

51c8Joe wrote:

Just an "I wonder why..." question for the Hudson historians. Why did Hudson (and Packard) use such a large header on their convertables? Earlier cars all used a smaller header, which was (I think) more attractive. Possibly the mono-bilt engineering led to this design? If so, why Packard?
Thanks for taking the time to answer.
Joe

Joe.. No specific knowledge about the answer to your question... just a bit of specifics about the part that makes up the convertible header for a Stepdown. If you look at any stepdown with the hood up you will not that the top ( header in the case of a convertible) is a seperate piece from the cowl.

In my earlier years in Hudsons about 25 years ago my friend Dennis Nyskern showed me a 54 Hudson convertible header collision repair part. It had been ordered for a car that had been involved in an accident and never used. Replacement would have entolled the removal of spot welds that held the header to the cowl top as well as along both right and left edges (normally hidden by the front fenders) to allow the new part to be installed.

While very strong... My GUESS is that the size of the header is more of a design implementation attempting to maintain the same roof line shape one would find with a hardtop coupe of the era... always fun to find out the truth of the matter.

Cheers:o

Jon B

Here's my wild guess: if the header portion of the folding top frame had been any longer it might not have fit into the well behind the back seat! I have never measured the clearance there, when the top of a Step-Down is down, but I'm guessing the engineers might have lopped those extra inches off the top frame's header (and added them to the fixed windshield header) when they first studied the geometry of the folding top frame and realized how little room there was between the back of the cockpit and the trunk lid!

[Deleted User]

Thanks to all. I love this forum. I can ask almost any dumb question and get several smart answers.

Joe

rambos_ride

OK - I don't have my original source (or pictures anymore) - I'm pretty sure it was in the book I sold to Niels but I answered a post about car lifts and Hudson convertibles and here is an section about the converts added stuctural stuff I somewhat plagerized from ...


Quote:
blah...blah...

...Hudson added a special "Z-member" to the lower frame rails from the cowl back to to the rear wheel well. An additional wide member was added to the to connect the rear wheelhousing to door lock pillar and was anchored to the base frame with a heavy iron casting. The rear bulkhead was welded to the wheelhousing and floor and to an additional member extending around the beltline to the doors. There were other structural re-inforcements made and the window frame was also re-inforced.

blah... blah..

Hudsy Wudsy

I remember this issue being addressed quite specifically in one of the Hudson books. Perhaps it was Butler's, maybe one of the others, I just don't recall right now. I do, however, remember being amazed and amused. Apparently the need for a convertible body was never addressed when Hudson executives and engineers rushed to get their new step down on the market after the war. The new sleek Hudsons were an immediate hit and it wasn't long before there was pressure from dealers and the public for a convertible. As a consequence of not addressing a convertible body's complexities from the outset, Hudson faced the headaches of remaking a fairly large and heavy unibody into a structurally challenging soft top. The large convertible header was a matter of engineering all right, but somewhat backwards engineering. The headers on Hudson convertibles are nothing less than the remaining vestiges of a full roof! Hudson hand built convertible bodies by taking completed coupe bodies off of the line and reworking them so that they could go topless! As preposterous as this may sound to you, it's true. Perhaps it was because they were unibody to begin with that the engineers saw this as the best course. Even autos with traditional body on frame consrtuction require extra bracing to keep them from sagging in the middle. For Hudsons, (being unibody) proper bracing was imperative. I imagine that Hudson's engineers thought the very best way to start to build a convertible body was to start with a perfectly jigged and aliglned body. They didn't have to look any further than the assembly line to find candidates. After all, once the roof is cut off a coupe you've got the start of a convertible, right? The first thing the builders did was install the heavy cast bracing which reinforced the floor and the lower part of the body which would have been the "B" pillar. (Behind front seat). This bracing was sufficiently strong enough to allow the body builders to next remove the roof without the body sagging in the middle. No doubt the remaining roof front/windshield business left them scratching their collective heads. It was deemed too costly to remove the "A" pillars and windshield to install something leaner and more conventional looking, so they went to work on what they had -- a large imposing header. The windshields remained unchanged and they simply hand worked and braced the trailing edge of the remaining roof sheet metal to create a mating surface for the new soft top. After that, lot's of hand work went into other bracing, door tops, sheet metal work behind the rear seat and trunk, pump and hydraulic line installation, the new soft top and it's folding frame and on and on. Any wonder why the converts cost a few bucks? In the general populace there had always been some concerns about the safety of convertibles in roll overs anyway, so the marketing people at Hudson had no trouble saying with a straight face that this large (sort of "elephant-in-the-room") header was there to protect folks and not because they were simply stuck with it! I, personally, have always loved it's substantial look. I think that it emphasizes the rake and curve of the windshields, whether the roof is up or down. I also think that, for some reason that lies in esthetics, the larger than anybody else's header contributes greatly to the step down convert's look of motion - even when it's standing still!