New possible Hudson engine swap idea

50C8DAN

OK, how would you like one of these babies? Not sure how far along it is but would this be neat or what?



http://www.plug2work.com/angellabsllc/d/myt.html

[Deleted User]

Thats an awesome site. Watch the animation, the overblown music is a hoot. The engine itself and the use of rotary combustion chambers is very interesting.

464Saloon

Everything is so small, I was trying to see how everything was connected and driven. I guess they don't want it to be too detailed, but it really is time with all the technology we have now and the cost of fuel, that something should replace the basic reciprocating engine. I think the rotary is awesome and it is really sad that the effort hasn't been put into that as has all the constant complication of the piston engine. Multi cams multi valves, cylinder deactivation, valvetrain advance/retard. What a complicated mess they are today. Look at how clean and simple this motor and the rotary are.

Fred

I love my 83 Mazdaa Rx7 Rotary almost as much as my Hudson. Bought it two years ago with just 37,000. miles (You save them, I'll use them.) Only thing is for such a light car the best I can do is 25mpg using cruise and staying within the speed limit. Also it is a dirty engine with three cat conv.'s And believe me the Japanese guy that took it off of Wankel did him a favor making it run as well as it does.

Fred

[Deleted User]

I remeber somewhere reading something about a fellow connected with the patent office some 60-70 years or more ago saying "they might as well close down this department, because evrything that could possibly be invented, has already been invented" !! Now that was some understatement !! Who'dathought that an engine of this size could put out that kind of horesepower. Bloody awesome.



All the stories about inventions of this magnitude start to roll around in the mind though, such as the 200 mile carburator being squashed by the oil companies of the day, the Tucker car that was simply too good for the other car makers to let succeed, the theft of the patent for the intermediate windshield wiper, by Chrysler I think it was, from its original inventor, because no car company could succeed without this option in the future, etc. etc.



Imagine yourself as one of the big three, say, and Toyota or Honda starts putting out cars with this engine. If it does what it says it can, as cheaply as they say it can be produced, this engine would make those companies obsolete virtually overnight, unless they could offer the same, at the same price. Suddenly, hundreds of thousands of individuals would be out of work, and economies and whole countries would fall. Sort of like an announcement from a pharmecuetical company that it will be putting on the market next week a $20.00 pill that will cure cancer. Not gonna happen folks, because virtually tens of millions of people worldwide that make their living from cancer, from treatment to research for cures, would suddenly have no income, and same thing, whole countries would go under !!



Having rambled on about that, I must confess I looked for info about whether this Company is registered on the stock market, because maybe, just maybe, if the technology is made available to the entire world as they say it is going to be, and not just to the highest bidder, and they've really got what they say they have here, we all just lived through the same kind of day the world had when the Wright brothers made their first flight, and we'd better hang on, "cause we're in for one helluva ride" !!



The website appears to be a year or so old. Where have they been since then, and what have they been doing?? I can't seem to get anything for 'news" off the site.



And --- are they on the stock exchange somewhere, and what are the symbols if they are?? I expect one could find some interesting stuff with a stock price chart to read about this Company.



Just my two cents worth,



silverone.

50C8DAN

Just a note, I have an LLC and it is not a fly by night setup! LLC are ways for small companies to incorporate at a minimal fee and keep the taxes low. Originally setup for land holding companies but now popular with startups. LLC are regulated by the IRS and for the most part not scams.

[Deleted User]

50C8DAN wrote:

OK, how would you like one of these babies? Not sure how far along it is but would this be neat or what?



http://www.plug2work.com/angellabsllc/d/myt.html

The rotary engine has an offset chamber so the explosive gas is backed against the "head" and the piston is sent on its way. This anamation implies the opposing pistons suddenly stop and serve as a backplate so the next pistions can be pushed along. That simply cannot happen, what am I missing?

[Deleted User]

It looks to me like the piston serving as a temporary "backplate" uses the compression being created in the chamber behind to sort of hold it in place momentarily ( when the air/fuel mixture explodes, the pressure created in the chamber is equal in all directions ). When the powerstroke piston passes the exhaust port, the pressure is relieved, and the "backplate" piston can now become a powerstroke piston when the fuel mixture it just helped compress behind it explodes. Same principle as any engine I can think of at the moment, --- they all need compression of some sort to create power.



Veeeery clever, this little goodie !!



silverone

[Deleted User]

It is impossible for a rotary engine to temporarily stop in place even for a moment. Its just not how the principle of this engine could work. Centrifugal force created by combustion would spin the rotor in an unending circular motion. For this to work the fuel air mixture would have to pushed in under pressure to meet the next chamber for firing. I think that is just an oversimplification for the video.

This is not the same as a piston engine because there is no momentary TDC or BDC like you would find on a engine with a crankand rods.

The thing that worries me about looking at that engine is the pistons seem to have piston rings. The Mazda rotary engine while not using pistons but a rotor proved these types of engines run at a higher temp and have a difficult time maintaining a seal. Mazda overcame this by using ceramic seals.

After looking at the video of it running and open engine the only way I can see this working is that each set if 4 pistons is on a separate shaft that rotates one slighty behind the other to allow for the combustion chamber to appear on each combustion rotation. As you can see in the video it looks like it has some serious cooling attached and the air is being rammed in the engine. I would like to see one of this running on a test bench for a couple of days to see how much heat it generates. The principles of a rotary engine are sound because unlike a Otto type engine you don't lose power because of energy loss through the crank and rods.

[Deleted User]

Folks download and look at the new videos they have. The inventor seems to claim the engine can run on atomspheric air. Yes folks it can run on air without fuel. And it develops full power at 800 rpm.

I for one hope this engine works as it will be nice to have a 24 inch wide engine under the hood that runs on air, or diesel, or bio fuels.

Sounds to good to be true. Which of course does not stop it from being true. I know those oil cartels will do anything to stop this...

Signed ...skeptical

[Deleted User]

It is not "running" on air, it has compressed air being forced into the combustion chamber, which the pressure then spins the engine in the video. This little engine is a pretty interesting concept. But, from the responses, it shows that we do not trust what is outside the box, to use a tired phrase.

[Deleted User]

I was looking at a pic of the motor in this thread when one of my piano technicians came in and said, "Oh, where did you find a picture of a Tschudi engine?" He then explained to me that this motor with a toriodal shaped cylinder had been originally developed in the 1950's.



He also explained to me that he had "invented" a similar rotary type engine (on paper) in the early 90's. In his effort to patent his ideas he was threatened by someone from the Rand Corp. after leaving the patent office.



Have I mentioned that every piano technician I have ever met is insane?



In a little bit of google research I came up with this site

which explains that the timing mechanism is the problem with these motors.

The thing that all of these engines have in common is the "rotating piston" design. All of these engines use a set of rotors that move within an annular volume. The difference between these prior art engines is primarily in the design the linkage that transmits the power and timing the engine. The Tschudi Engine, for example, uses a modified Geneva mechanism to move the pistons around the volume in alternating steps. This results in an engine that takes two revolutions to complete a power cycle (i.e., transmit a power pulse to each piston), giving it a power density similar to a reciprocating piston engine. Still other prior art engines took advantage of the fact that a mechanism could be created that allowed the engine to complete one power cycle per chamber every revolution. This increased the potential power density in the engine, but the fragile mechanisms used for timing these engines led to their downfall. All of these engines were susceptible to various failure modes.

So here we have an engine that was initially designed when our flathead 6's were just coming off the assembly line - our flatheads are now "obsolete" yet my Hudson still runs, and this new guy powers his motor with air so he doesn't "destroy" his prototype.

[Deleted User]

You have to watch the video LA-Auto-Video2 where he states that they have put the engine in a car and it runs on atomspheric air, its at 4.20 mins in on the video he said they found out it would do this by chance and they have put the car away for later testing. He then says he does not want to upset anyone so they run it on fuel but he will talk about that later. This is where I get dubious!

I understand the engine in the video is being spun by compressed air. Developing full torque at 800rpm has to be explained to me.

So watch the complete video and what he says and then we have to explain how it can be running on atomspheric air alone. Its not about thinking outside the box its about trying to understand the principles he is discussing in the video.

[Deleted User]

As I see it there are four pistons attatched to two "discs", each one turning its own driveshaft. Thusly, when one set is on a power stroke, the other is on a compression cycle, and nether disc has to stop at all, even momentarily.

The thing is beginning to look a lot like one of those "why didn't I think of that" type of inventions, the more one studies it. Simple, yet ingenius !!

Guess I just hit the nail on the head there --- I can handle the simple, its the ingenius part that gets me every time. :-)

One thing I've learned well over time though, is that there are damn few free lunches in this world !! There's got to be a lot of heat created to squeeze 2000 horsepower out of a 150 pound engine !! Take a look at the rad in a semi for instance, or a D10 Cat. Puny by comparison in horsepower, but requiring massive cooling capacity.

Maybe the thing would work great in boats though, 'cause the whole lake or ocean can be your rad.



silverone

www.hudsoncollector.com

SuperDave

"Maybe the thing would work great in boats though, 'cause the whole lake or ocean can be your rad."

OMIGOD another source for global warming! LOL

Unknown

I have been looking into this long and hard(no pun intended)When he said that the thing ran on ambient air he ment that in wasn't needed to compress the air at the fuel air intake stage.rember he enrish not too goot.Niether is my spelling.

If you look at some of the other types of rotary engines,you may see that compression in achieved by the pistons mechanical action.In his model(created when he was still in high school)There isn't a compression "stroke"simply the assembly moving on to the combustion area.

[Deleted User]

50C8DAN wrote:

OK, how would you like one of these babies? Not sure how far along it is but would this be neat or what?



http://www.plug2work.com/angellabsllc/d/myt.html

Has anyone heard or stumbled on anything else regarding this engine lately ?



They seem to have disappeared off the radar screen.



silverone

bigboy308

I can't get anything to open, either. However, This probably belongs in the same category as the old BOURKE engine, designed and built in the old days in the Petaluma, CA. area. In the information I've got, Bourke's engine(s) actually ran and were investigated by the Dept. of Defense. Something about a Scotch Yoke delivering power fro msome opposed pistons. Would like to find out more information, if anyone has any info, e-mail me! Thanx