Another perspective on Oil for older cars

50C8DAN

I can't remember if anyone note this before, but this is from the Studebaker Drivers Club website:



The June 2006 Hot Rod magazine has an excellent technical article on

why flat-top lifters and their attendant camshafts are failing at a

dramatically-increasing rate of late. It's worth a read if you have the

time.



One (but not the only) reason cited was people using current S-rated

motor oil designed for new-car engines, none of which (they say) have

the flat-top lifters and camshafts that were the industry standard for

a hundred years, and are in our Studebakers.



Hot Rod's research points out that current S-rated oils do not have

enough zinc and phosphorus compounds to properly lubricate flat-top

lifters and cams. They recommend diesel-rated oils, using Shell

Rotella-T as an example.



Chemical analysis is given for the requirements of current S-rated oil

versus C-rated oil (C = Compression Ignition, i.e; Diesels). The

analysis indicates C-rated oils have between 50 and 60 percent more

zinc/phosphorus compounds than do new-car S-rated oils.



Shell Rotella-T, of course, isn't the only appropriate oil meeting

those standards. Chevron Delo-400 is another such oil, as is Castrol

Tection Extra. Incidentally, Castrol Tection Extra is on sale at Auto

Zone for $2 off a gallon jug through May. It's regularly $8.79 a gallon

here in Central Indiana, but the register rings you up at $6.79 through

May: Limit two gallons per customer per day.

Unknown

I haven't owned my Hudson for very long and the engine was rebuilt just before I purchased it. So although I can't speak from experience, I'm sure there are others that have had there cars for decades and used whatever oil was readily available. With that being said, have numerous people had lifter and cam problems? Should those of us using regular and synthetic oils change to diesel rated oil?

kamzack

I don't wish to come across as a know it all or trying to push a particular brand of Lubricant,"but" in a previous response I spoke of positive qualities of Lubrication Engineers product line. Thier 15w 40 is a direct cross to delo 400. Le engine oils have a high zinc and phosphorus making it and excellent choice for older engines. I don't want to repeat the response in the synthetic oil thread, but LE oils have the absolute strongest film strength in the industry and best lubricity. Plus coating all components with a film that stays indefinetly. I've run LE 15w40 in my Hudsons and Studebakers since 1992 and have had great success with it. Again, will absolutely out perform all synthetics. It is the most thermally stable oil out there. I run mine 15,000 with filters at 5k. They will ship it right to your door. I also have thier gear oil in my 3peed w/od and 4:56 rear end. engine is quieter with LE oil also. No dry starts. I also worked in a restoration shop in Fla part time for 8 years and that was the lubricant of choice for approximately 40 show quality Studebakers. LE website:www.le-inc.com or phone them at 1-800-537-7683.

Thanks for letting me share my view. I'm still convinced that if you make an investment in machine for fun or work, it deserves the best oil and pm program. Thanks,

Kim

hudsonbaker@myexcel.com

[Deleted User]

I run Quaker State 10W30 in my Hornet always have never had a problem. When I pulled the pan recently to change the gaskets and put in a new distributor gear the cam was fully oiled as were all the other components. Why, because Hudson used heavy duty extra capacity oil pumps. This oil story has been bounced around for years. The oil pump works to maintain a constant supply of oil to all the bearing and friction surfaces in your engine. Todays oil provide superior protection. Maybe a splasher type engine is different, but I don't think so.

Lets poll the racing guys like Randy and Dany and anyone else running normal oil. Any of you burning out cams and lifters?

brnhornet52*

I currently run Valvoline 20W50 in the summer for high heat, and 10W40 in the winter in my Hornet. No problems at all or sludge in the pan, although I change it every 1000 miles along with the filter. I admit this is overkill.

I had a huge problem lately with Quaker State 10W40 in another car I bought new. The car was 14 yrs old with 100,000 miles. It got its oil and filter changed every 3000 using the Quaker State. It lost all oil pressure. When the pan was pulled, the lower part of the engine was totally sludged up, and the pickup screen was completely clogged. Cleaning it out and a new oil pickup restored the oil pressure.

I had used Quaker State since I was a kid in the 70's religiously. Apparently the oil formula was changed when Quaker State merged with Pennzoil and moved out of PA to Houston. I contacted Quaker State, and received no answer. Just my experience.

[Deleted User]

Has anyone used Amzoil motor oil or other Amzoil product in a Hudson, specifically a '37 Terraplane? If so, what weight oil?

kamzack

The reason for the sludge build-up in Pennsylvania,South american, and foriegn born crudes is because of the high carbon content(coal country). The sludge is not airborn contaiminents,but part of the base stocks used. Also, all the majors are making lubricants to just get past the API specs,nothing more. It's a competive industry,all selling the same thing with each putting thier twist on formulation. They also are in the lube business as a result of having sold the cash cow off the top-Gasoline. What do they do with the sludge that's left over? Oils and greases.The synthetics are good choices for certain applications. The "pao base" used is synthisized so ridgedly is not very conducive to the blending process, meaning the anti-wear package doesn't hang in like like some pet.based oils. This is why Blends were introduced back in the early 90's. They half to have pet.based to get anti-wear to hang in. Syn. oils are not always compatible with gasket materials,meaning, if you have a small leak with current oil, you'll have a bigger leak with syn. oils. Syn oils have a tendacy to harden said materials.

I'm a committed customer of Lubrication Engineers.l

Lubricants is all they do. This the statement that's on the back of every quart:"No other brand of lubricating oil what so ever,regardless of price, will be found superior in condition to Lubrication Engineers products at the end of any given period of use". www.le-inc.com

Thanks for letting me share my view.

Kim Kramer

hudsonbaker@myexcel.com

Walt-LA

Have been running 15W40 Shell Rotella T since rebuild a year ago. Some 2500 miles, so it is early to tell. Studebaker magazine has recommended both the diesel type oil, and staying away from 10W40. Walt-La

50C8DAN

I think this link was posted some months back as having vintage car lubricants:



http://www.penrite.us/nextpage.php

[Deleted User]

I'll stick with Amsoil across the board.

[Deleted User]

Interesting discussion. When it comes to oil, I will admit I know very little. Therefore I look for an independent source for information. Consumer Reports has done studies on type of oil and engine wear. They indicated that they have observed no difference in wear between any of the oils that had the "approved for use in..." lable on them reguardless of price. based on this, I run the cheapest oil I can find with the lable on it. I have bought several new cars. I ran them until it was time to put them in the junk yard. I have never had an engine fail, it is always other items which take the car down. Based on this, I have a tough time feeling I am going the wrong way. It is nice to have a "standard." Some oils may beat the standard a great deal, but if the standard does the job, then the rest is overkill. Although the racing community is responsible for some of the most significant improvements in cars over the years, I am not sure they are the best source of oil information. Those engines don't get many standard miles on them and all that I have been associated with use oil in vast quantaties, not a change every 3k miles or so.....

[Deleted User]

Alexa, I agree with you totally. Pick a new oil you are happy with and stay with it. Like I said in a previous post I have used Quaker State in my Hornet and when I pulled the pan off I didn't find any sludge and I was amazed at how clean the engine was. The previous owner used Quaker State before me for 20 years and so I kept using it and I always used it in my other cars.

I cannot understand that Hotrod article how the lift profile of the cam and the flat lifters is going to affect oil adhesion. IMHO its a lot of baloney. I have just finished running brushes through the oil galley's on a 308 I am rebuilding there are oil ports for each lifter and lots of oiling for the cam. This engine has sat for years before I pulled it apart and when I pulled the cam and lifters they were still covered in oil. The Hudson pressure oiled engines such as the 232, 262, and 308 had a high capacity oil pump and any of the modern oils will keep the friction parts lubed up to spec.

Trying to match the older formulars is a waste of time. Remember its your oil pump that is pumping a constant supply of oil to the wearing components of your engine that is keeping your engine running and not some additive. The new oils are high heat, long wear with a more that adequate adhesive properties to project your engine from wear.

Geoff

As a matter of interest, there is no direct supply of oil to the cams. Sure, the lifter guides and the bearings get their feed from the pump, but the cams and the contact surface of the lifters are lubricated from anything left over which either dribbles down or is splashed up, unlime modern o.h.c. engines which have streams of oil directed at the cams. So in a sense, even our Step-downs are part splashers!

Geoff.