Gasohol and stepdowns

Edwardjohnsr

My state is now requiring 10% ethanol in gasoline. Some say this will affect seals, hoses, diaphrams, etc. What has been the experience of other Hudson owners in using ethanol/gasoline blends?

Ed - 53 Hornet

[Deleted User]

I have been running my Hornet on a 10% blend for 2 years. Never really thought about seals and hoses. I have no problems and it runs really nicely on it. I have run this blend in my car and van for years never had a problem. Maybe ignorance is bliss.

[Deleted User]

The 10% blend doesn't cause too many problems, unless your carb, fuel pump, or rubber portions of the fuel lines were marginal to start with. The E-85, on the other hand, will require alcohol-friendly fuel components, adjustments in the mixture and timing, and other adjustments to use properly. There's been this discussion on the stovebolt.com and sweptline.net truck forums. The discussions have been, shall we say, interesting and spirited!

Unknown

I've used the 10% stuff on occasion (I say "on occasion" because I live in an area where it isn't mandated yet) in our '54 Kaiser and I haven't really noticed any issues. However, I ALWAYS use lead substitute in the tank (offered by Gunk and other manufacturers) just to be on the safe side. 7.3:1 compression is comparatively low by today's standards and can burn some pretty atrocious stuff, so I always use regular grade which (unless you go to Kwik Trip) doesn't usually have as much ethanol in it. Many of the Citgo stations here in Fond du Lac County, Wisconsin have stickers right on the pumps: "Gasoline Contains No Alcohol," so I try to gas up at Citgo when I can. Some urbanized Wisconsin counties (Milwaukee, Waukesha, Ozaukee, Washington, Racine, Kenosha and others) do mandate the ethanol blend, so I try to avoid gassing up in these counties.

As for E85, I wouldn't put that swill in ANYTHING that wasn't specifically built as an FFV (like some of the new sushi-burners). The only thing I know about E85 is from my antique outboard/snowmobile hobbies, and that is that IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT MIX WITH ANY 2-STROKE OIL and is therefore motor poison. I have a hell of enough of a time trying to get 10% blend to mix with TC-W3 oil (the only stuff holy enough to touch the innards of my beloved Martins, Mercs and Scott-Atwaters, get that syntho-crap outta here). I have to shake the livin' hell out of it. (Alky-burning racing kickers used to use methanol, which will mix with some oils but is EXTREMELY corrosive.)

Our automotive four-strokes, especially with their lower compression, seem to be more forgiving. Like previously said, the rubber condition is a concern; but modern aftermarket replacement stuff seems to be made to accept the modern gasoline, so if your engine has been completely rebuilt with new rubber (and of course, hardened alloy valves/seats!), 10% blends shouldn't really be an issue.

Edwardjohnsr

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) my engine has not been rebuilt. As far as I know it is all original except for the usual tune-up components. Thats why I'm so concerned about gasohol. Has anyone else used gasohol in an original engine?

Ed

Unknown

Ed,

Most of the threads have touched on and around the issue. The bottom line is that old "Natural" rubber parts don't like gasohol much. Your car will run fine on it, just change any old rubber fuel lines and obtain a rebuilt fuel pump that has been overhauled with new senthetic rubber materials. the carb and it's internal parts will not be affected by the use of gasohol.

Unknown

Sorry, Ed, didn't realize yours wasn't a rebuild; I guess I figured a rebuild was SOP for any collector car (shows what I know). I second what Fred Connors has said. I do not know the true value of adding lead substitute to your tank but I figure it can't hurt, especially with the old valves/seats, and even on a rebuild the peace-of-mind value should be worth it. That's what I'd do, anyway. Anyone, feel free to weigh in on the lead sub idea. I'm sure someone out there knows more than I.

[Deleted User]

Ed,



My Hornet is not rebuilt yet either and it has no effects that I can see anyway. Like I said runs pretty nice. Lead additive is not needed. The blocks on Hudsons are chrome moly content which is harder than any hardened seat you can install. I have two 308's on the stands now that were run on modern gas for years. valves and valve seats are fine.



The modern gas burns hotter but not hot enough to cause a Hudson any problems.

[Deleted User]

There are two distinct issues here.



One is how the engine will run (performance, economy, longevity of plugs, valves, etc.) on a gasohol blend.



Two is what effect will the gasohol blend have on rubber fuel system components.



I think how the engine runs is an issue that is worthy of sharing our experiences with alcohol blends so we can continue to run our Hudsons without potential engine damage as the world changes around us.



On the second point, it has pretty well been proven that a fuel pump diaphragm or other "rubber" component that comes in contact with alcohol will swell and/or degrade unless it is made of neoprene. So unless you are sure that you have 100% neoprene components in your fuel system, it is not a question of IF you will have a failure, it is a question of WHEN.



Also. if you're running an electric fuel pump in addition to the mechanical one, it should be a gear driven type pump if you are using gasohol.



Tom Drew

7XPacemaker

I will say that I have had some problems with my throttle linkages on the carb becoming "stuck" after the car had sat for a month or two, I have since started putting a shot or two of the old "mystery oil" in and it hasn't happened since. I wonder if this problem wasn't caused by the fuel.

Edwardjohnsr

One more question about gasohol. Should I replace the gas line and fuel pump now or just wait until the gasohol does its thing? Is there any harm in using the old stuff until it gives me a problem? Will the gasohol dissolve the rubber and damage other parts like the carburetors?

Thanks

Ed

Nevada Hudson

I had nothing but problems with my original 352Packard v8 (1956 Hornet) with gasohol. The fuel pump failed, the rubber fuel hoses swelled and failed, and had to have the carburetor taken apart and rebuilt. Have not used it since on this car. Have not tried it on my 51 Hornet. No problem on my modern cars .

rambos_ride

Great discussion! Problem is no concensus as to whether blended gas causes a problem - some have had issues - some haven't...

The folks who have had some problems is the ethenol blend more than 10%?

Up here in Taxington State they run the 10% blend pretty much year round these days.

With oil prices and "the greeners" pushing for it - it won't be long before all have blended fuels.

I just read an article about part of the rise in prices of gasoline are directly attributed to congress mandating blended gas and e85 alternatives. As the ethanol industry is now engergized by this and oil prices a recent facility went online last month as was running at max production in only 3 days!

Bio-fuels are making the same kind of push and cannot keep up with demand.

Here's an interesting question - did Hudson every make a diesel engine? And/Or has anyone ever built and "alternative fueled" Hudson? Propane? Diesel? Electric?

dwardo99

My uncle ran his truck with stepdown engine on propane in the 70s and later, I think. It was a dual-fuel arrangement that would run on either gas or propane. The conversion is simple and there is nothing new about it. My uncle and my dad were big into this stuff as my dad was a propane distributor (my first car, an Oldsmobile, ran on propane) and they had a contract at one time to convert trucks bought new by the local steel mill to propane. It requires a tank, a water-heated regulator, and a suitable carb or adapter to go on top of the gasoline carb, if I remember right.

Unknown

Edwardjohnsr wrote:

One more question about gasohol. Should I replace the gas line and fuel pump now or just wait until the gasohol does its thing? Is there any harm in using the old stuff until it gives me a problem? Will the gasohol dissolve the rubber and damage other parts like the carburetors?

Thanks

Ed

Most logically, don't wait until you have a problem--you don't want to be left stranded when it happens! Common sense would be to convert everything susceptible to the gasohol to neoprene. That's just good preventative maintenance practice.

We just got the '54 Kaiser back (Fri. 6/9) from a complete mechanical overhaul on the engine, tranny/overdrive, rear axle, entire drivetrain; plus the exhaust/muffler and all new wiring as well. All new neoprene seals, hardened valves/seats, etc. Very reasonably done at $3080. I don't know how this compares but I feel it was a VERY good value. Dale Hammon of Janesville, Wis., a K-F Club member, did the work. He said that when he took the engine apart everything was so worn and sloppy he was surprised it ran (it had seemed to run fairly smooth, despite a slight clunk and traces of blue smoke at higher RPMs --a tribute to the hardiness/design of the engine, perhaps?). Runs AWESOME now on regular 87-octane gas--cruised all the way home at full interstate speed, effortlessly--no need to throw money away on expensive lead substitute and no need to fear 10% ethanol blend. Even if you just replace the rubber components, THE PEACE OF MIND IS WORTH IT. GET IT DONE.