12v conversion

464Saloon

Well after hot dogging it out to the meet with Neils in our Hornets, my 54 as usual on a Hudson event decided to throw up another problem. Shortly after we got to the event and before heading to the track, my amp light came on. After doing a quick test with some of the guys there it looked to be the voltage regulator but there was plenty of battery so off to the track we went. Bill A got me a regulator the next day so I put that on. NOPE still not charging. So some of us got together and did some more tests (getting pretty late now) and the generator was barely putting out. I am thinking this would be the best time to go 12V with an alternator since I want to drive the car a lot. How many of you have done this and what works and what doesn't? I think I have some time before another event so I think I can get er done!

Thanks

[Deleted User]

Rob,



Lloyd Miller did change over in my Hornet. Seems like he would be a good local guy to call.



P.S.- I hope your "date" went well!

[Deleted User]

Have you considered a 6-volt alternator? There would be no voltage issues, and more output. There are several websites that might help you. One is http://www.alternatorparts.com. I have seen them on ebay, also.

BN

464Saloon

I think 12v would be the best in the long run, if nothing else for the sake of convenience. I am surprised I haven't had more response here. Maybe this si something more new to everyone that I thought.

TwinH

There is nothing inheritly wrong with a generator system although they may require

more frequent attention than an alternator. Plenty of aircraft flying around with

generator systems not that much different than our Hudsons. That being said,what do

I know,the PO changed mine to a 12 volt alternator and two six volt Otima batteries.

Kinda overkill I think,but troublefree and 6 & 12 volt available. If it still had the stock

generator I'd be inclined to keep it,but thats just me.

Walt-LA

Park Waldrop has posted the necessities for conversion to 12V on Ken Cates Stepdown Restoration site. It is complete with bulb swaps, resistor info etc. I went on to Petronix ignition with mine, which has been great for the year, and 1,500 or so miles I've put on it. While I've rewired a lot of it, and the unexposed wires were in good condition, I feel a lot better about fire hazard... though I still carry a fire extinguisher in the passenger compartment! Walt-LA

[Deleted User]

"the PO changed mine to a 12 volt alternator and two six volt Otima batteries.

Kinda overkill I think,but troublefree and 6 & 12 volt available."



How does this work? I'm not an automotive electrical or any electrical expert, but this sounds interesting. Is the 12v alternator charging both 6v batts? how do you run both 12v and 6v off of this setup?



Hope this isn't to dumb of a question, but your setup is something I haven't heard of before.



Thanks,



Herb

Walt-LA

The two batteries are wired in series to produce 12 Volts, as though they were cells in a single battery. Pulling off only one of the two batteries gives six volts



http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/electricity_and_magnets/Circuits_and_Batteries/20021206002850.htm



Walt-LA

464Saloon

I should have thought of Ken's site. I will go check it out.



Thanks,

harry54

Don't do it.... Get the brushes in the generator changed.. The car works well when it is set up right . Remember it was engineered to run on a 6 v system.

Walt-LA

It would not be that difficult to return to 6V. I saved my gen and voltage regulator. Would need to return to points and condenser. Change the bulbs back, the most difficult part would be changing the tell tale light bulbs for the high beams and turn signals. If you've changed before, you know what I mean. And radio, if you have one. Many people continue with 6V starter and horns, also blower on heater... So....

Walt-LA

Unknown

Twin H,



I'd really be interested in hearing more about that two 6 volt battery set up you have there... I'd think I really like to give it a try if you have any more info. on doing such a thing.



bigdumbox

464Saloon

I just printed up the instructions off Ken's site and there are some things that I didn't think of that could slow or complicate the project. OD relay and solenoid to 12v could be a problem and I thought you had to change the headlight switch and dimmer switch, but it is not on the list.

Walt-LA

Have to change the headlights. Could put in a relay on the lights if you wanted to as well. Many people seem to, especially those operating on 6V. The switches are heavier in 6V than 12. All of your 6V wiring is heavier than required for 12. Which for me was one of the principal reasons for converting. That and I may want A.C and cruise control in the future. Walt-LA

464Saloon

Walt,



Do you have O.D.? If you do what did you do for the solenoid and relay for it?

Geoff

Reliability should not be a factor as far as the 6v generator is concerned. These units were built like the traditional brick outhouse. I have had one generator failure in 40 years, and one regulator fault. Both fixed easily. However, the choice is yours. 12 volts components are certainly easier to get, but there are other factors to consider as you have discovered - radio, heater, overdrive.

Geoff.

464Saloon

I think I have nothing to lose, but pull it out and see if it just needs brushes. I think 12v and alternator would be the best way in the long run, but I would rather build up the parts so it won't be down so long. The OD solenoid and relay could prove a problem to get in 12v or have converted.

Walt-LA

464Saloon



No, I have hydramatic.



Walt-LA

TwinH

bigdumbox wrote:

Twin H,



I'd really be interested in hearing more about that two 6 volt battery set up you have there... I'd think I really like to give it a try if you have any more info. on doing such a thing.



bigdumbox

bigdumbox, I didn't do the install but I'll try and describe it here.



[IMG][/img]



Sorry,this is the best pic I have. You see the two"pricey I'm sure" Optima six

volt batteries and behind them the 12 volt GM (SI?) alternator. Starting and

charging circuits are strictly 12 volt as are the lighting and ignition circuits.

the battery closest to you inthe pic pulls 6 volts from the positive terminal

which you can see in the very lower left of pic (Orange wire). Other end

of that battery is chassis ground(neg.) so whatever circuits are connected

to that orange wire (radio,heater and I don't know what else) have only

6 volts. Biggest plus to the 12 volt IMO is the ability to do away with the

ignition points/condenser. Mine uses a Crane Cams XR700 electronic

conversion that has worked great for me and is an older version of what

they sell now. Hope this helps explain.



I should note to, that the 12 volt halogen headlights are really bright and

the taillights show up really well too. I just need to figure out how to hide

those Optimas under an old battery case as they sort of scream 21st

century in an otherwise 50 year old engine compartment...

[Deleted User]

TwinH wrote:

bigdumbox, I didn't do the install but I'll try and describe it here.



[IMG][/img]



Sorry,this is the best pic I have. You see the two"pricey I'm sure" Optima six

volt batteries and behind them the 12 volt GM (SI?) alternator. Starting and

charging circuits are strictly 12 volt as are the lighting and ignition circuits.

the battery closest to you inthe pic pulls 6 volts from the positive terminal

which you can see in the very lower left of pic (Orange wire). Other end

of that battery is chassis ground(neg.) so whatever circuits are connected

to that orange wire (radio,heater and I don't know what else) have only

6 volts. Biggest plus to the 12 volt IMO is the ability to do away with the

ignition points/condenser. Mine uses a Crane Cams XR700 electronic

conversion that has worked great for me and is an older version of what

they sell now. Hope this helps explain.



I should note to, that the 12 volt halogen headlights are really bright and

the taillights show up really well too. I just need to figure out how to hide

those Optimas under an old battery case as they sort of scream 21st

century in an otherwise 50 year old engine compartment...

Very sanitary engine compartment. Nice!

Unknown

Ditto what Walt has been telling you. I've converted Doc from 6V to 12V and run a GM alternator, along with re-wiring the entire car. Main reason was that I've added Vintage Aire AC/Heat. Fire was also a major concern dealing with 50+ year-old wiring. Park's pages were of the greatest asset as was his help via phone during the conversion process. I'm no electrical genius. On the contrary, it takes me some time to thoroughly analyze exactly what I'm doing and why (like to understand why it works, not just how). Well worth the effort if you plan on doing AC or power steering, although there are some folk out there who have added the AC with a 6V compressor. It's much harder to find such a compressor, as it is and 12V parts are more readily available. Besides, I like the brighter lights and non-dimming feature of the 12v. I actually put Halogens in for headlights (much, much brighter at night). Also, the safety factor comes into play by the way of taillights. Modern drivers are used to seeing "cyclops" lights (the brake light up high in the center of modern cars) from other cars. With a 6V system, not only do you not have a cyclops light, but your standard tail- and brake-lights are quite dim. Not so with a 12V conversion and 12V taillight bulbs.



Russell

rambos_ride

Hi Russell,



How did you like installing the Vintage Aire? And how is it with the AC? Does it cool the rear section off pretty well? Got any pics?



Did you re-wire your hood ornament to 12v too?

TwinH

nhp1127 wrote:

Very sanitary engine compartment. Nice!

Thanks for the compliment but most of the credit belongs to the late

Jimmy Stewart, Plymouth,MI. Bought this off Ebay last June(my first Hudson).

His friends that helped his widow complete the sale last year told me it came

from Miller Motors in Ypsalanti,MI but I haven't verified that. This 49 C8 came

to me with the Clifford head cracked externally between # 5 and #6 so my

only work to this point involved reworking the head and detailing and dressing

up what was already there. Mr Stewart did a great job of documenting the

changes from stock(including hand drawn schematics of wiring changes) that

have helped me immeasurably and I thank him for that.

I almost felt bad for the owner of a blown big block chevelle I was parked

next to at our first show. The crowd around the Hudson engine compartment

never seemed to let up while his polished blower,2 4barrels,etc.,etc. went

largely unnoticed... Go figure.

Fred

I've had 12v one wire altenator in my 48 comm 8 for about 10 years. Overdrive works fine. Needed a new relay recently but after ten years I figure it just got tired. (58 years if you include 6 volt time)

Fred

464Saloon

Fred,



Did you have to get a 12 OD solenoid and relay? According to the printout on Ken's site you do, but I have had some say you don't. What do you have?

Park_W

464, you do need a 12v relay, but they're available at any parts store. Look where they have the add-on driving lights and such. You can get by with a 6v solenoid of the '50 and later type if you power it with just a 16 ga. wire from the relay ... sorta works as a resistor to reduce the overvoltage on the solenoid. Better yet is to find a '48-'49 solenoid, which has separate connections for "pull-in" and "hold-in" coils. Then you can put the appropriate resistor in line with the hold-in coil to reduce the voltage there to 6-7 volts. My 12v conversion notes discuss this. And one advantage of 12v I didn't see, while scanning through this thread, is the ability to find a needed bulb just about anywhere. Getting tough to find the 6v ones at your average parts store.

Fred

464Saloon wrote:

Fred,



Did you have to get a 12 OD solenoid and relay? According to the printout on Ken's site you do, but I have had some say you don't. What do you have?

Nope, relay, solenoid and Gov. all original. Also have a hydromatic rear end so when your cruising you are really cruising. I did put a toggle switch under the dash to substitue for the kickdown switch but am thinking of changing back.

Fred

Unknown

rambos_ride wrote:

Hi Russell,



How did you like installing the Vintage Aire? And how is it with the AC? Does it cool the rear section off pretty well? Got any pics?



Did you re-wire your hood ornament to 12v too?

Hi Dan! Sorry about my late response . . . haven't been online for a few days.



Vintage Aire works like a charm, cools the back fine. Last thing I need to do is put some dyna-mat down on the floor and add new carpet ( I'm gettiing way too much heat up in the cabin down here in the 100-degree days.) Hood ornament is re-wired to 12V and works good-nice and bright. Don't have any detailed pics but I'll take some soon and post them for you. The under dash panel is especially nice as I hammer-formed part of it and looks as though it could have been original. Only part I don't like is the plastic vents that I've got in it . . . I was thinking of maybe making some out of stainless so they wouldn't look so modern. We're finally moving to our new house on Saturday and I'll take the pics soon thereafter and get them to you.

Russell



P.S. Don't know if I thanked you for the picture re-sizing or not, but THANKS!! (little brain-dead this week).

Russell

464Saloon

See where it gets tricky, Park says you need to change the relay and Fred says you don't. Then there is the option of using resistors or a voltage drop. If I change the bulbs rebuild the radio to 12V change the cig lighter to 12V the clock appears to be a winder (must be because it is a Special) then all that really leaves is the blower and maybe the OD relay, which may not even be in the circuit since it is wired direct to a toggle switch right now. Bought it that way.