Engine - I thought I'd do it later than sooner.

[Deleted User]

Well, about a month ago while driving the 52 Pacemaker on a mild Summer evening, I started hearing a ticking deep within the engine after it warmed up a bit. The ticking quickly turned to a tapping, to a knocking and yes, finally to a thumping...and even more finally to what I thought was the final "seizing" of the engine with a metal-on-metal scraaaaaappe... So, something I have not determined yet (I am thinking the bearings or a busted rod) killed my original 232 engine. I did manage to get it started again weeks later, with the same clunkety-clunk in the engine block...so that my father could confirm the internal clunks with his well trained ears (he's restored several british cars and is currently on a 1967 Jaguar E type). After some kleenex and mental counseling about not being able to ride out the rest of the Summer, I resolved to get the engine rebuilt or rebuild it myself. Now, please do understand that I am 38 with 2 kids (translation=I have no money to do this) and the wife is very supportive. She'd rather spend the money to get the motor running in top shape than have a four door beauty sit idle.... and for that I am eternally grateful.

So, I am looking to find out parts sources for complete engine rebuilds. I could certainly call Kanter.com for a deluxe rebuild kit for a 52 Hudson - that source I am very aware of. Also, if anyone has advice, guidance, prayers, etc... or a source for a shop that could clean, test and rebuild this engine in the Maryland/Virginia/Washington, DC area, let me know - I'd love to start getting some estimates to see if it is worth rebuilding it myself or having a shop complete it for me.

Thanks.

Unknown

Don't call Kanter!



who you need to contact is Dale Cooper, you can do a search online, google "dale cooper hudson" and you should get the correct result. total package with new pistons, all gaskets, and bearings should cost you ~$1400



figure from a good machine shop around $1000-$1500 in machining, unless it's real bad, and if you do it yourself, you should be in under $4000, but that might be a shy conservative....

Jon B

Well, I don't know if you've tried them, but we are fortunate to have two very skilled full-time Hudson mechanics in the CBC, one located in Waterford, Va. (Joel Horne), and the other in Capon Bridge, W.VA. (Paul O'Malley). You can find the contact info. for both in your National roster. There are indeed other skilled shops in the area, I'm sure, though I'm not really sure who.



One could also purchase a good used or rebuilt engine out of the area and have it installed locally. For example, one of our CBC members recently obtained a rebuilt Hudson engine from (I believe) Dave Kostansek in Ohio, and has found a very good shop local to Baltimore, to actually drop it into the car.

7XPacemaker

Jon pretty much covers all of your bases here. Paul O'Malley is one of the best Hudson mechanics to be had in ANY area! Dave Kostansek sells rebuilt engines as well. If your not a die hard purist, maybe now is the time to put a hornet motor in it! The money is going to be SO close to rebuild either one, it is something you may want to consider..........

464Saloon

Or just put in a SBC:eek:

Unknown

464Saloon wrote:

Or just put in a SBC:eek:

I guess you could, but why would you? :cool:





here's a link for Coopers site....



http://www.hudsonmotorcarco.com/

[Deleted User]

I think I will give Dave Kost. a phone call and find out what he can do for me over the upcoming Winter months. Maybe by May 1, 2007 I can be back on the road. That would be ideal.

I just plain refuse to sell or part-out a car as good as this because of engine troubles....

Thanks again for the words of encouragement and info.

Unknown

Take My Advice, Get A Hornet 308, It Could Cost More To Do Your 232 If Crank Is Hurt. Costs The Same To Do A Hornet, And You Will Have Something That Will Haul The Whole Family In That 4 Door. Bill Albright

[Deleted User]

That may be something to really look into Bill - thanks for the advice on the 308... and yes, I do intend to haul the whole family in it and the kids are only going to get bigger and bigger.

50C8DAN

I would give Joel Horn (in VA) a call. He may actually have a 308 available. Joel is a good guy and loves Hudsons. You can find his number in the HET directory or let me know and I will look it up for you.

[Deleted User]

Well, I'm not dead set on being the most pure purist in the arena...but I would prefer to keep an engine in the car that was at least available as an original part. So, that being said, was a 308 engine with Twin-H power ever available in a 52 Pacemaker? Please keep in mind that I am truly not trying to be a smart-ass. I am looking to be educated on this topic.

Thanks to all.

[Deleted User]

Excellent - thanks, Dan. I hate to say it but I am having trouble locating my directory (lost in the basment somewhere under all my spare hudson parts). If you get a chance to send his number to me in an email I'd be very appreciative. kktreb@msn.com - Thanks again.

MikeWA

kktreb wrote:

Well, I'm not dead set on being the most pure purist in the arena...but I would prefer to keep an engine in the car that was at least available as an original part. So, that being said, was a 308 engine with Twin-H power ever available in a 52 Pacemaker? Please keep in mind that I am truly not trying to be a smart-ass. I am looking to be educated on this topic.



Thanks to all.

No, the 308 was not available in the Pacemaker, or in anything other than a Hornet, I think (we'd have to ask some more knowledgable board denizens, but I don't think there was any crossover of engines among models- with Pace you got 232, with Commodore and Super 6 you got 262, with Hornet you got 308). But that being said, I'd sure have to second what Bill A said- go with the 308! That engine (and the novel Twin H) was one of the main things that set Hudson apart, and a good part of the continuing interest in the marque. You'll have a car that will be more competent on the road and more pleasant to drive, and resale value will get a boost, as well, IMHO.

Unknown

yeah, the 308 really is the way to go. If you don't mind the non-original engine in there, you'll appreciate the extra cubes for sure. Keep the original engine, gather parts over the duration.



as far as originality, this is a common and very accepted swap. With the exception of the head, if it is marked, it woul be a bit difficult for the average person to tell the difference.

[Deleted User]

You both raise some good points here and since I'm hell bent on getting back on the road, I guess the smart thing to do is to explore the possibility of finding a good (rebuilt) 308 out there and see what the transition might entail. Not being 100% up to speed on any engine other than what I've got, am I looking at modifiying additional parts because I'm moving to a 308 or is everything (externally speaking) pretty much the same, such as the drive shaft length, tranny match-up, etc?

I still would have to dwell on giving up on my original 232, but, like you said, Hudson powered is still Hudson powered... Amen to that.

Ya'll have given me much to ponder over the upcoming Fall months....
Speaking of falling, I am having a full day of rain and wind here in Maryland.... might float away again like I did in June.

Thanks, fellas!

nick s

your 232 and the 308 are nearly identical castings (the 308 has an extra rib near the oil pan flange. it will bolt in with all your accessories, is identical front to rear in length so motor mounts transmission and driveshaft are no concern. i believe the total advance on your distributor is a bit different and you will want hornet manifolds as your 232 probably has a single barrel. stock two barrel manifolds are not in high demand (everyone wants a twin h) so that would save a few bucks. if you find a good carb/intake but bad exhaust don't worry your's will bolt right up. not sure if the smaller starter motor will present any problems. someone like dave k could hook you up with the engine and any accessories you need.



some more info to file away

if you opt for rebuilding yours, you may beable to find crank and rods to take it to a 262. your 232 is just a destroked 262. can even run your 232 head and raise the compression. you can run the 262 on a 308 but the 232 is not advised for street use though the origonal 7x heads were a variation of the 232. if you buy all new parts 232, 262 308 the price will run about the same, but you can find some better prices on 232 and 262 parts occasionally. just watch heads and head gaskets as the block was widened in 51 and the advent of the hornet its only about a 1/8" difference but 262 gaskets will be marked 48-50 and 232 will be 50 only.

[Deleted User]

I now have some serious options in front of me - and yes, I think I will begin the hunt for a 308. I do not want to have to go thru an engine swap for another 54 years, so I might as well aim high - if anyone has a whereabouts for a rebuilt 308, please let me know.

Thanks again to everyone who has input here... best group of heads I've come across in a loooong time.

Uncle Josh

Well, my two cents. I'd take it apart and see what's the matter with it, and get some free education in the process. Get a Hudson buddy who knows what he's doing to help you out, and fix it, probably for around $3-400 if you do it yourself.



My guess is that only one rod bearing has gone bad. If you're lucky, it may not have scored the crank. If you're unlucky, you can have the thing ground and put an undersize bearing in.



The later short wheelbase cars, the Wasps had the 262 as an option I believe, and the Super Wasps came with the 262 standard which are more available than 308s and very adequate, and in my opinion a better all around engine, and I'm running them both. I've seen them being given away.



Stay with the single carb for everyday driving if you don't need the WOW factor. You certainly don't need the brute power of the Hornet. If you put twin H on the short wheelbase, you'll have to butcher the air cleaner to clear the wiper motor. Get the details from Paul Schuster.

Unknown

or just take the wiper motor off, use rain-x :eek:

[Deleted User]

One other factor involved here is that I do have the matching engine Serial No. to VIN. Both numbers are plain as day matched.... so, again, I lean towards getting what I have rebuilt... I know, I know, my mind is wondering back and forth, back and forth on this issue....

I can certainly start by opening up the head and seeing what I can see about problems inside, right? Very true Uncle Josh, it may be a manageable internal repair, rather that a whole new engine.

Unknown

I'd lean toward you just opening the engine up and taking a peak...hopefully it's not a complete rebuild, new pistons, crank, and who knows else and just a rod or something easier to get to.



I can understand wanting to have the engine and match the rest of the car, so I would really think about keeping the engine the same rebuilding it, if thats what it needs. I think someone mentioned earlier that the 232 is just a de-stroked 262, so if you do want to a little more "umph!" that could be the route to take, same engine, just changed the internals up.

[Deleted User]

hudsonkid wrote:

yeah, the 308 really is the way to go. If you don't mind the non-original engine in there, you'll appreciate the extra cubes for sure. Keep the original engine, gather parts over the duration.

as far as originality, this is a common and very accepted swap. With the exception of the head, if it is marked, it woul be a bit difficult for the average person to tell the difference.

Since you want to stay all Hudson, this would seem to be the way to go. Are there really that many 308's still out there, I mean thats good if there is, so that those who want them will still find them affordably.

Jay

nick s

kktreb wrote:

One other factor involved here is that I do have the matching engine Serial No. to VIN. Both numbers are plain as day matched.... so, again, I lean towards getting what I have rebuilt... I know, I know, my mind is wondering back and forth, back and forth on this issue....



I can certainly start by opening up the head and seeing what I can see about problems inside, right? Very true Uncle Josh, it may be a manageable internal repair, rather that a whole new engine.

thinking about the economics, pull the pan not the head if you want only to patch the problem that shut you down. pulling the head will let you see the condion of your valves and seats but not much else that you won't see from the bottom. unless you want to do a valve job while your at it, but i assume it ran pretty good up til last week and therefore had decent compression and may be some dollars to not spend if you are looking at the rebuild later anyway. pulling the pan will give you a peek at the bearings rods and cylinders. as stated, some new bearings may get you back together afterall it did start again. based on what you see, you should be able to make a decision as to how far you have to go.

Unknown

The last I talked with Dave K he had a couple of rebuilt 308's, I believe he was asking around $2800.00, this was with your externals. Also he had a few good used 232's and 262's on hand. Posted this last week but didnot go through.