It's Sad that it's come to this.....

harry54

The TRavesty of the American Auto industry gets worse.....

hudsonguy

Had a recent visit from my aunt who lives in Belleville, Michigan. She used to work at Ford from the 60's-90's. One of the things she related was the sad economic state that the Detroit area and Michigan in general is going through. Very sad, indeed.

harry54

I agree, however the irony of it is that detriot is building very high quality cars now . Unfortunately the younger generation that bought a honda or a toyota as their first car in the early 80s, after the late 70's gas crunch, will never buy american. It took so long for the Big 3 to catch up with quality control and stlyling that the ship has sailed and their not on it. The real tradgedy is that the UAW is going to be the final nail in the coffin. The big 3 can't catch up with the ball and chain around both legs........ I heard it said that , " It's like trying to turn an Aircraft Carrier around in the Hudson River"

Unknown

Just remember that these firms were and are guided by management collecting very large pay checks, So don't blame the poor yahoo out there working and we discuss why Hudson went out,

harry54

Speaking from the heart, I hear ya..... I tried to carry the American Flag and still do. However, I can't blame anyone for buying forign . In the Words of our x- President, " I feel your Pain"...

The thing is, I've had 3 Chevy SUV's , and I really can't complain. I had an 87 s-10 blazer , 2000 Tahoe and 2002 Suburban. THey've all been relieable. THe 2002 Suburban has been the best of the bunch... 95,000. miles and still like brand new. My Dad has an 88 Old's Cutlas with 255,000. Still going.... I like the value of the Trucks over the cars but still understand people wanting the best reliability.

[Deleted User]

Sure, the execs make an obscene amount of money, but that does not mean that the rank and file are blameless. I remember back in the 90's, I saw a news report where they were intervieving an auto worker from Louisianna ar Mississippi, not sure which. The workers plant was on strike ( Ford plant ) and the guy was complaining that He could not live on what the company was offering. This guy was an ordinary assembly line worker and couldn't live on $16.50 an hour. ( At the time I was making $7.50 hr and was buying my home, a car and supporting my family) Can You imagine, how much that the skilled workers and supervisory people were paid? The greed of the union and the workers and the company, combined to produce vehicles that were/are out of reach for many Americans. Sure you see a lot of people driving new cars, but most are on lease and after 3-5 years of making payments,they still do not own the vehicle.
Also partly to blame is the urge to have all the manufacturing in one area of the country. Most, not all, auto production is in the Michigan area, so naturally when the industry takes a hit, the Michigan area takes the hardest impact.
I do not blame any one person/company/union/area for the problems. The same thing happened to the Aircraft industry in California.
I am sorry to hear that people are losing their jobs and homes. It is not limited to the Auto workers though. A friend of mine, worked for a company for 30 years when the company officials came in on Monday morning and told the entire work force " If you have any personal items in your lockers take them home today because we are closing the plant tomorrow. Around 400 employees out of work! not 10,000 jobs like Ford but when you think that there are not 10,000 people in the whole county, it makes as much or greater impact on the local economy!
I do feel for each and every one that has or is losing their job and home, and will pray for their situation.
Bob

hdsn49

My wifes 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee died last week with 188,000 miles. She always said that she wanted another Jeep. Last December my son Greg bought a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee. He has had so many problems with the Jeep that my wife won't even look at another one.



We started looking at new American SUVs. Then we looked at the Toyotas, Hondas, Subarus even the Hyundais. These foreign cars have it all over the american cars. I am sad to say that we are going to buy our first Honda.



I would prefer to buy American but car for car, value for value the American cars loose.

Aaron D. IL

Every time you hear about a major job cut by a major employer like GM cutting 30,000 jobs you have to multiply that by 4 to get the total number of people impacted because almost all those workers have families. So in that cas really 120,000 people are effected, then you figure those people who used to get paychecks are no longer buying things so the stores and resturaunts they used to frequent end up closing too because they have no customers and then you begin to understand the ripple effect a mass lay-off has through the economy. You could say that it is all Detroit's fault for putting all their economic eggs in one basket but the reality is across the US that solid middle class jobs are leaving this country and they're not being replaced with comparable jobs, instead they're being replaced with "Mc Jobs" or jobs at Wal Mart. In part because we don't make anything. US companies employ more Chineese workers than American workers. Some fundamental questions need to be asked by Americans like, "Who does the economy exist for?"

harry54

Aaron,

I couldn't agree with you more.

This goes so much deeper than American Auto Manufactures, it goes to the heart of National Security. This Nation, Is selling out to the cheapest bidder. As we continue to sub out our jobs to the cheapest bidder globally, we take one step further into the abyss. We can't allow ourselves to make our national security decicions based on global trade.

How about Wal Mart trying to acquire " Trust Mart" of China? Here we are in a show down with North Korea and China doesn't want to enforce hard sanctions. But We allow Wal Mart to Buy a Chineese Company .... It's the American Way.

Sometimes you have to make a short term bad economic decision for long term positive results. Both based on Economics and National Security. Look I agree the Free enterprise system is the best in the world but some times things aren't black and white , thery're Grey.........

[Deleted User]

For years I swore up and down that I would never buy a vehicle made in Japan. My dad and I always owned Ford and GM's as our daily drivers. He is a WWII vet and out of respect for our country we suffered for years.

That changed after going thru all the crap associated with the pure $hit boxes that they put out. The last six new Fords, Chevys, Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles we bought were the worst vehicles we have ever owned period. Things that should have never gone bad were the first to break. And to top if off you had to fight with the dealerships to do any waranty work or even look at the vehicle!

I could go on for hours on end about the 91 Chevy 1/2 ton truck I special ordered new but could only drive 2400 miles in the two years I owned it but I won't. No matter what we bought it spent more time in the shop than in our driveway. Since 1972 Dad and I bought 14 new cars and all of them were plagued with problems.

I made the switch to Subaru in the late 90's and will never look back. The big three do not offer anything at all that I want in my driveway. Its not only the vehicles but having to deal with the dealerships that they can never fix.

I have no sympathy for these people. Overpaid. Unwilling to put in a hard days work. Will do anything they can to goof off or pawn off their work on someone else. Lazy sob's that think they should have everything handed to them on a platter. Yes I have worked in Union shop here in the midwest and yes I know first hand how messed up their work ethic is.

Something changed long ago in America and it was not for the better.

Not only is the top brass to blame but everybody down the line.

After 30+ years of building and selling crap they need a wake-up call and this is it.

PaceRacer50

harry54

PaceRacer50 , I hear ya... You seem to have had your fair share of plagued vehichles.... Your right , it's our own fault. The country got lazy.....And then the world changed with the Technology boom and We were the last to get in.

We're also trying to operate in the present with the Labor Laws and Unions from the 40's and 50's. The Global economic arena is a tough place to exist . Unfortunatley , it's seems like it's to late for the big 3 but How about ther rest of corperate America ??????

Aaron D. IL

The USA in fact invented most of the technology, but we didn't keep it to build our own industry from, we sold it off to Japan, China and India. We continually sell out our comparative/competitive advantages and so we don't now make anything the world wants to buy.

I am am all for the market economy BUT the big corporate players don't really believe in it. If they did, it would be interesting to see how they play the game, but they don't. CEO's believe in letting the market handle things as long as they are WINNING. When they're not they want the government to come and bail them out with corporate welfare. (i.e. "What's good for GM is good for America") OR inotherwords with our tax dollars. They lobby the Government and tell them that if they go under then lots of tax-paying Americans will loose their jobs and that's not good. But as soon as they're bailed out they still lay off everyone and send the jobs to India or China. Look boys and girls this is how the free market is supposed to work: IF you can't figure out how to make money making cars, then you loose, too bad, thanks for playing, try again! Someone else who can figure out how to make money at it will do so. If we really believe in the market GM or American Airlines should be no different. But no, we bail them out and still let them screw over middle-class workers. Mom and pop businesses and startups don't get bailed out when they start gushing red ink. Why should GM ? That's the market. If we're going to allow our government to give corporate welfare it should only be on the stipulation that working Americans who do in fact work don't get screwed in the process. Otherwise the large scale business community should never get any money from the government unless the government iself is in fact buying something from it.

Unknown

As far as Foreign makes, Next time you go to a dealer, look where the various components are made. We had a Honda Civic (excellent car) only thing from Japan was the transmission, everything else was American Made. Ford Focus had more foreign made parts than the Honda. In the early 80's the economy was REAL BAD in Iowa. Link Belt Crane. P & H Crane, and Goss printing Press wanted their workers to take the hit like everyone else. No Go. All 3 now gone elsewhere.

[Deleted User]

You know I did check very carefully before I bought the three Subies I owned.

All three were special addition (2.5RS or turbocharged) models that were built in Japan.

Several of my friends work at the West Lafeyette SIA plant and they do build quite good vehicles. Major difference here is they are non Union which means that they are held accountable for their actions on the job.

Can you say that about a UAW worker?

Lets face it, until the upper management is replace across the board then nothing here will change.

Its sad to say but middle and upper management in this country once was made up of very talented people. People who know what the hell they were doing. They would not sell out their own work force, they INVESTED in them to make better products and make them faster & cheeper.

Now in todays markets it seams that the morrons and baffoons are in charge, running everything like a bunch of monkeys.

One of the older guys at where I work who had the experience, drive and the tallent to make things fly right said it: "They are just Playing Office".

Sorry to rant but you guys really struck a nerve with this thread...

PaceRacer50

[Deleted User]

The reason, like it or not, and it is a fact, is that the UAW health benefits and exorbitant retirement packages have killed themselves. I've mentioned it before here on the forum. You can't pay someone $70,000 a year to build a car and then expect someone who makes $30,000 a year to buy it. That is exactly what has happened and now the unions are crying the blues. In the end, it will be a good thing as it will make us more competive. Also, quit bad mouthing management, I've been working my tail off!

harry54

I've noticed there are some strong feelings about this subject. I have to say that I agree with all the points brought out ......

I guess the American spirit for work and inovation has lost it's way. And the I, I, I, focus has taken over in the last 3 decades.... I just hope that the American Pysche can some how get rejuvinated........

[Deleted User]

And, I suppose those in management do not have LARGE incomes, FULLY funded health benefits, extreme or exorbitant retirement packages, stock options, "Golden Parachutes", etc??

As far as working your 'tail off', that's what having a job is all about - If someone isn't 'busy' in their work, then they shouldn't be needed & there wouldn't (shouldn't?) be a job there for them (well, for the most part anyway... :rolleyes: ).

Most "managers" don't make too much more than hourly workers and they get to take the company problems home after work. More pay comes with more responsibility. The business owner has the most to lose. Welcome to capitalism. The big "corporate execs" that everyone likes to refer too in the media are certainly questionable... right there with the big Union leaders. By the way, anyone find Jimmy Hoffa? I love the term "working people". I guess one has to dig ditches in order to be considered "working". Back to Hudsons... and work.