Trouble adjusting rear brake shoes on 51 pacemaker.

Rob Fayette

I don't know where to begin really.  I installed everything new for the brake system on this car.  I got it all together and it seemed to be working great.  Lots of solid pedal and it seemed to brake just fine. A few days later I noticed a smell like something hot or burnt when I came home from a 10 mile drive on the freeway. I took it for another drive and had my temp gun ready to lay under the car and measure the drum. The outer surface of the drum read 500 deg F . I took the drum off and the front brake shoe is worn significantly on both ends of the lining. I discovered that where the top of the shoe hugs the anchor pin it was raised up away from the pin maybe 1/8" or so. I decided to try to do a major brake adjustment where you loosen the anchor bolt.  Here is where things went sideways.  I loosened the anchor bolt about a turn to see how far up and down it would move in the slot.  It hardly moved so I loosened it some more and I got it to moving maybe 1/8 " up and down in the slot.  I thought, I will take the bolt off and clean everything up real well so it will slide better during the major brake adjustment.  I started taking the anchor bolt all the way off and it turned very hard. I kept turning and it didn't get any easier. (maybe it isn't supposed to come off?)  Then I realized that I may have damaged something where it goes through the slot in the backing plate.  Now it only moves up and down maybe 1/32 ".  I thought, well I will just change out the backing plate with a different one ,until I realized the backing plate is riveted to the axle housing.  Am I hosed?  Do I need a different rear end now? I guess this is what can happen when an amateur gets in over his head.  Thanks, as always, for any thoughts on this.

Rob

Uncle Josh

You're on to the problem.  You've got Ford shoes on there and they need the anchor pin to be moved to fit them.  Did the nut screw all the way off and did you remove the lock-washer and special washer, and remove the pin?  You will have to grind the opening to let the pin move enough.  Then you tighten the shoes with the e-brake and tap the pin until it matches the shoes per Walt Mordenti's instructions. 

Rob Fayette

Thanks a lot Uncle Josh.  If I understand you right the pin will come off so I will try again today.  It was turning so hard I thought I might be ruining it.

Rob Fayette

Yes Uncle Josh, I did get the pin off.  I also found the directions in Walt Mordentis' Hudson Tech Tips Volume 2: 2004-2007 page 15 where he tells how to grind the anchor pin slot .050" at the bottom; so that  today's brake shoes for Hudsons  will work.  (I think the reason the anchor pin nut was so hard to get off was because someone had put lock tight on it).

Ken, All of the brake shoes I got off Ebay were the same size lining.  They didn't have the short and long lining like they should have. After 250 miles on them, the front shoe was worn so bad it rocked like a rocking horse when held up against the drum. The rear shoe still fit the drum perfectly. I don't know why this happened but it was causing the drum to be 500 hundred degrees when the car was being driven.

I am going to try a different approach for now.  I found some good looking used shoes in my stash of used parts.  I believe they are the correct shoes.  I am going to try them before I grind the slots to fit modern shoes.

Thanks for the help
Rob

54coupe

I set the new shoes against the inside of the drum, and see if they match the radius of the drum. They may need to be re-arced to match the drum. This is a key step to having proper functioning brakes. 

Glowplug

Glad to know you are headed for the home stretch Rob... keep moving a bit at a time and it will all be correct soon... Ken Cates 

Rob Fayette

Ken, The Master Cylinder, Wheels Cylinders, and brake lines are all recently purchased new parts. I just measured the linings and they are 3/16" thick. I'm thinking more and more that the shoes just don't fit the anchor pin correctly like it shows in Walt Mordentis' tech tip ,and what Uncle Josh also pointed out. I will post here , how the used shoes turn out.  
Thanks for all of the input.

Rob

Rob Fayette

Thanks for that Ken.  That clarifies even more the difference between the Ford shoes and the Hudson Shoes.
Rob

Rob Fayette

I got the used brake shoes installed and so far they seem to be fine.  I took them for a 20 mile run on the freeway and when I got home the drums were cool to the touch as opposed to 500 deg F with the other shoes I had bought from ebay. I have plenty of solid pedal and the car stops fine.
I did what they call a Major brake adjustment on all four wheels where you adjust the anchor pin.  The anchor pin adjustment wasn't very easy.  On a couple of the wheels it was unclear to me if I had done it right. I think they assume you have everything perfect like drums that run perfectly true. 
 I found a way to mount the rear drum on an old axle and chuck it up in the lathe . (This is the 51 hudson rear end with the tapered axle, as opposed to the Dana/Spicer). out of the 4 rear drums I checked on the lathe, the best run out I found was .0025" on one and .005" on another. One of the drums had .020" of run out. I didn't check the front drums in the lathe. I don't see how you can get .010" of clearance at each end of the shoe when you have a run out of .005".  My hunch is that it probably isn't that important as long as you have good pedal and the car stops good?
Thanks again for everyone's input.
Rob

Rob Fayette

Thanks for the good input Ken.  As you can see I have a lot to learn! If I remember right the guy  that did my drums said he took them to the limit.  I think he said .060" as you said.  He didn't have the correct cones for the Hudson drum.  I remember thinking at the time that it looked pretty marginal.  The one tapered cone just barely entered the small hole of the drum. It seemed like it might have been touching the edge of the hole where it wasn't really a machined surface.
Rob

Rob Fayette

Very cool Ken,  I bet there aren't very many of those around.