Need some starter advice!

Jon B

I'd appreciate the input of any Hudson expert!  My car is a 1937 Terraplane, and the starter is an AutoLite MAB-4075 (or it's supposed to be.  The tag is gone.).

The Problem:

1. My starter spins, not engaging the flywheel ring gear, about half the time.  The rest of the time it works.   Lately, it has started jamming in the flywheel ring gear, requiring removal of the starter to free the Bendix from the ring gear.  Rocking the car does not break the Bendix loose from the ring gear.  I need to get this starter fixed!

Comments:

1. The battery's 6 years old so I've ordered a new one. Maybe that will help.

2. The Bendix was replaced about 3 years ago with a rebuilt one from a company in Oklahoma.  I am assuming it was correctly rebuilt but have no idea how to test it.

3. I took the starter to two auto electric shops who told me there was nothing wrong with it.

4. The motor does vibrate a bit when I take it out and hook it to a battery.  While hand-rotating the shaft, it does look slightly bent (maybe 1/16" out of balance, at a point maybe 3" from the outer end of the shaft.

5.  I don't see any excess oil on the shaft.  I've been warned not to oil it.

6.  Two days ago  I took it to a third auto electric shop.  This time, the fellow said it was okay but that the large spring at the end needed to be rotated so that the two bolts lined up. (Previously they did not).  He tightened the spring to accomplish this  (See photo)  Note the old spring (sitting next to the motor) is not wound so tightly, and the spring eyes are not in line.

7. The Bendix drive can be rotated by hand on the shaft.  When I have it out of the car and on a table, and rotate the Bendix by hand so it's out almost to the motor, it just stays there.  Is it supposed to spring back all the way back to the large spring, by itself?  Or just sit there halfway along the shaft?

Possible "fix":

I have been offered a 1940 Hudson starter by a Hudson friend who lives a couple states away. (it's a MAB4103, I think)  But, according to the Hudson 1950 interchange manual it is a 1940-only starter.  That seems crazy, since 1941-47 (8-cyl. starters) do interchange with my car.  What's so different about the 1940 starter that makes it incompatible with other Hudsons?  Could I replace a particular part on the '40 starter with a similar part on the '37, to make the '40 adapt?

Maybe when I get the new battery, I'll bolt the existing starter (in the photo) back into the car -- just to see if that helps.  But will that tightly-wound spring that's now on it, do any harm?

I'll be grateful if someone can answer even one of my questions!

charles4d

Is the starter in straight  did it have shims
All else fails use the crank in front of the car?

Jon B

Ken, thanks for your thoughts.  I have indeed had this problem for several years -- off and on.  And before I go to the considerable expense of removing the entire engine and transmission (in order to install a ring gear) I would like to check off all the other possibilities first.  For example: my biggest problem is the starter's free-spinning without even engaging the ring gear; how could a chipped or broken tooth be at fault if the starter hasn't even engaged the teeth?  And why, after several pushes of the starter button, would the starter finally engage?  (Presumably the broken tooth did not heal itself in a few seconds.)

EdHudson

Jon B said:

I'd appreciate the input of any Hudson expert!  My car is a 1937 Terraplane, and the starter is an AutoLite MAB-4075 (or it's supposed to be.  The tag is gone.).

The Problem:

1. My starter spins, not engaging the flywheel ring gear, about half the time.  The rest of the time it works.   Lately, it has started jamming in the flywheel ring gear, requiring removal of the starter to free the Bendix from the ring gear.  Rocking the car does not break the Bendix loose from the ring gear.  I need to get this starter fixed!

Comments:

1. The battery's 6 years old so I've ordered a new one. Maybe that will help.

2. The Bendix was replaced about 3 years ago with a rebuilt one from a company in Oklahoma.  I am assuming it was correctly rebuilt but have no idea how to test it.

3. I took the starter to two auto electric shops who told me there was nothing wrong with it.

4. The motor does vibrate a bit when I take it out and hook it to a battery.  While hand-rotating the shaft, it does look slightly bent (maybe 1/16" out of balance, at a point maybe 3" from the outer end of the shaft.

5.  I don't see any excess oil on the shaft.  I've been warned not to oil it.

6.  Two days ago  I took it to a third auto electric shop.  This time, the fellow said it was okay but that the large spring at the end needed to be rotated so that the two bolts lined up. (Previously they did not).  He tightened the spring to accomplish this  (See photo)  Note the old spring (sitting next to the motor) is not wound so tightly, and the spring eyes are not in line.

7. The Bendix drive can be rotated by hand on the shaft.  When I have it out of the car and on a table, and rotate the Bendix by hand so it's out almost to the motor, it just stays there.  Is it supposed to spring back all the way back to the large spring, by itself?  Or just sit there halfway along the shaft?

Possible "fix":

I have been offered a 1940 Hudson starter by a Hudson friend who lives a couple states away. (it's a MAB4103, I think)  But, according to the Hudson 1950 interchange manual it is a 1940-only starter.  That seems crazy, since 1941-47 (8-cyl. starters) do interchange with my car.  What's so different about the 1940 starter that makes it incompatible with other Hudsons?  Could I replace a particular part on the '40 starter with a similar part on the '37, to make the '40 adapt?

Maybe when I get the new battery, I'll bolt the existing starter (in the photo) back into the car -- just to see if that helps.  But will that tightly-wound spring that's now on it, do any harm?

I'll be grateful if someone can answer even one of my questions!

Jon The 1940 starter has a different solenoid than the 1936?-39, 1941-47. One has a grounded base and the other has an insulated base. Check my post on the other forum for which is which. Those look like 2 different springs, one has more coils than the other. Check your parts book to see the difference between the 2 starters.

The bendix drive looks like it's extended. Try tapping the starter gently with 6v to see if it snaps back. There's always the possibility that you have the wrong bendix.

All my parts and interchange books are packed away so I can't help too much. 

 Try to post on the other forum as I don't get over here very often

Jon B

Thanks for your thoughts, Ed!  So, it sounds like -- if I transplant a complete 1940 starter to my car, including the 1940 solenoid and 1940 Bendix -- I'd be okay.  Unless of course there are any components that make it a bad fit for a 1937 car!

As to the correct Bendix, I'm utterly at the mercy of the company in Oklahoma that rebuilds them.  I gave them the Autolite part number and assume that's what I got!

cchancel

The outfit in Oklahoma does a nice job, but they (like any of us) can make mistakes.  They shipped me the wrong Bendix once, but made good on it when I called them and explained the problem.

Kdancy

I had these guys  make a studebaker v8 starter conversion, works well.

Im sending them a hudson starter to use for template for a standard trans starter conversion.

We will see---being as the standard shift starter bendix "pulls" into the ring gear instead of throwing back into it.

bob ward

From the OP
4. The motor does vibrate a bit when I take it out and hook it to a battery.  While hand-rotating the shaft, it does look slightly bent (maybe 1/16" out of balance, at a point maybe 3" from the outer end of the shaft.

If I understand you correctly and the starter motor shaft is 1/16" bent that is not helpful.

Jon B

Thanks for all your advice.  A friend loaned me his 1942-47 8-cyl. starter and it works perfectly in my '37.  So, now I know the problem (sometimes jamming, and failing to engage) lay in my starter itself and nothing external like the flywheel.  I'll never know what precisely was wrong with my original starter but it vibrated badly (possibly bent shaft), and the action of the Bendix (though rebuilt) wasn't at all that of the 8-cyl. one.  Also, the 8-cyl. starter runs fast like a modern starter.  At any rate I should have walked away from the original starter 3 years ago when it started giving me problems.