Oil Pump Removal Question...232

[Deleted User]

On my 232 engine - I am attempting to inspect the oil pump housing and pump gear.... but I cannot seem to get the pump removed after removing the 3 long housing bolts and the two short bolts that hold the cover on.....

The inner centrifuge ring dropped out on its own but the shaft and the rest of the unit will not budge... There was oil in the pump when I removed the pump cover. Now I am at a loss as to what I need to do to get the remainder of the pump off the engine....

Any ideas here? I have lightly tapped on it with a hammer.... still nothin. I do not want to turn the drive train over for fear of moving off of UDC 1 on the distributeur - I am following the instructions for removal in the Hudson Shop Manual for a 6 cylinder 1952 Pacemaker 232 engine...

what is the deal here?

[Deleted User]

Here is a photo of the pump.... bolts are out and the thing won't move!

[Deleted User]

kktreb wrote:

Here is a photo of the pump.... bolts are out and the thing won't move!

Kevin the picture tell the story... the grease build up around the pump housing has solidified. This muck is a combination of oil and dust which turns into something akin to stucco. You have the right idea in tapping the pump... it will come out if you rap it a few times ... to break the "stucco seal". The pump will rotate because its gear is interfaced to the camshaft gear. A pump with a good gear fits snug... so keep at it ... scraping away some of the stucco will help too.



Good Luck

Unknown

Maybe you can't tell because of the "residue" around it, but the whole pump body must be removed...flush to the block. A little degreasing followed by tapping the body with a rawhide mallet should work wonders.

[Deleted User]

Heart_Of_Texas wrote:

Kevin the picture tell the story... the grease build up around the pump housing has solidified. This muck is a combination of oil and dust which turns into something akin to stucco. You have the right idea in tapping the pump... it will come out if you rap it a few times ... to break the "stucco seal". The pump will rotate because its gear is interfaced to the camshaft gear. A pump with a good gear fits snug... so keep at it ... scraping away some of the stucco will help too.

Good Luck

Thanks, Ken - I could guess from the illustrations in the Shop Manual that the housing definitely should come out.... straight out - I will demuckify the outside and promise that I wil not hit the housing very hard (if at all) with the hammer. It is a tough angle to get to under the vehicle. Thanks again.

[Deleted User]

kktreb wrote:

Thanks, Ken - I could guess from the illustrations in the Shop Manual that the housing definitely should come out.... straight out - I will demuckify the outside and promise that I wil not hit the housing very hard (if at all) with the hammer. It is a tough angle to get to under the vehicle. Thanks again.

Thanks - I do have means for degreasing but I don't have a rawhide mallet.... how about a rubber mallet or wooden?

kamzack

Hey Dave and Ken,



Is there a possibility the distributor shaft end with the way it goes into the bronze gear is keepin the gear from rotating out and away from the cam?

Kevin has mentioned not wanting to rotate the crankshaft and all, but didn't mentioned removing the distributor. Is this part of what's keeping the pump from coming out?

Kim

Unknown

kamzack wrote:

Hey Dave and Ken,



Is there a possibility the distributor shaft end with the way it goes into the bronze gear is keepin the gear from rotating out and away from the cam?

Kevin has mentioned not wanting to rotate the crankshaft and all, but didn't mentioned removing the distributor. Is this part of what's keeping the pump from coming out?

Kim

No. The dist. dont have to come out to remove the oil pump but it will have to be removed to replace the pump.

Unknown

Once you tap the housing with your rubber, wooden or rawhide mallet, it should pull right out.

kamzack

Hey Billy K.,

Thanks for the info on the dist. removal.. I share Kevin's reluctance to beat and bang too much,cause we're dealing with treasures that are old, but aint it fun. Best therapy available for a motorhead.

Kim

[Deleted User]

kamzack wrote:

Hey Billy K.,
Thanks for the info on the dist. removal.. I share Kevin's reluctance to beat and bang too much,cause we're dealing with treasures that are old, but aint it fun. Best therapy available for a motorhead.
Kim

The pump came out without any problem after a little degreasing and a couple of taps in the right places... no harm done to the housing. And yes, the feeling of it coming off the way I thought it would was very satisfying....

Unfortunately, or fortunately (however you look at it) the pump and all of its components appear to be working properly... therefore, I have no new information on the cause of the rattling and knocking inside the engine. I thought maybe because my oil pan screen was clogged beyond repair that maybe I broke off a cog on the oil pump gear or broke part of the pump itself... etc... no luck there. So, back on it goes after I get a new pump gasket and clean up the goop all over it. Meanwhile, the cold weather is coming and there is not much more I can really get into tearing apart until Spring 07. I simply hate having a mystery thump thump thump in the engine all winter and not knowing what the @#$% the problem really is. But, as they say, sometimes restoration and repair are just one bolt at a time.

Patience is something I am learning with this 54 year old beast.
Thanks for the info. all

[Deleted User]

Ken U-Tx wrote:

Unfortunately, or fortunately (however you look at it) the pump and all of its components appear to be working properly... therefore, I have no new information on the cause of the rattling and knocking inside the engine. I thought maybe because my oil pan screen was clogged beyond repair that maybe I broke off a cog on the oil pump gear or broke part of the pump itself... etc...


The above statement tells me alot. Engine was previously run with little to no oil pressure. Rattling is most likely the lifters, and thumping is the rod & main bearings. Needs to be rebuilt or replaced.

You are probably right, Ken.... but I am avoiding that scenario for now.... staying in my little dream world where everything is alright.

[Deleted User]

If you use a hammer with a head softer than metal, I dont think you can hurt the side of the pump, give her a pretty good whack. If you get into too much trouble with the pump, I think I have a functional spare I can send you for the cost of shipping. As to installation, go ahead and pull the distributor, make sure the smaller cresent on the distributor is to the bottom of the motor, and put the distributor pointing to number one. Of course you need to be at top dead center when you do all this. It is not hard to find top dead center. Just pull the plugs and look in with a flashlight. When number one is up, its exhaust valve will be down and number two exhaust valve will be up. You can see both exhaust valves through the spark plug holes.