Transmission Stuck in Gear

BigSky

Took the 37 out yesterday to put more “braking in the engine” miles on it.  After 15-20 miles I started having shifting issues with the Electric Hand, in other words it wouldn’t shift between 2nd & 3rd.  Wouldn’t come out of gear, then when out wouldn’t go into gear.  

Eventually I was stuck on the side of the road with the coupe in neutral & could not get it into any gear with or without the engine running.  After 20 minutes I was able to get it into 2nd gear but not 3rd & limped back home.  Still haven’t been able to get it to come out of 2nd gear.  

I could use some guidance on how & what to start looking at with this problem.

Jon B

One big question would be: is the problem originating in the transmission itself (or the clutch), or in the Electric Hand?

The way to find that out would be to try manually shifting, whenever you encounter the shifting problem, to isolate the cause.  I am guessing you do NOT have the spare gearshift lever.  Possibly you could cobble one together by welding a round steel collar to a steel rod.  (The collar would fit around the stud that sticks out of the floor).  Then you could drive it around the block and make an attempt to manually shift, and another attempt to electrically shift.

You say you can't get it out of gear, sometimes.  That raises the issue of the clutch.  Too little Hudsonite could cause the corks to get hot and swell, making it hard to get out of gear.  But the situation would only improve after the corks have had a chance to cool down, so I'm not sure that this would be a consideration.

The linkages from the two power cylinders to the transmission might also be the source of your woes.  Are they tight, or have they loosened up?  Also: I assume there is an adjustment provision in both linkages, and perhaps one or both of them need adjustment, one direction or the other.  Their adjustment might be just barely on the edge of being correct.  Then, part of the time they might work, and the other part, they might not.

The electric shift from 2nd to 3rd involves just one of the cylinders, so thankfully you have isolated the problem to just that cylinder (or its linkage) -- not the cross-shift cylinder.

By the way, do you have access to the shop manual's Electric Hand section, pages 1 - 29?  (The 1939 Electric Hand is covered in pages 29 - 36 and might have additional comments on problems encountered in earlier versions of the mechanism.)  If you haven't looked through the shop manual on this subject, you might take a look.  It deals in detail with how the E.H. operates, and how to check for problems.

One more possible cause could be the shift locks (on the side of the transmission) being slightly out of adjustment.  But, once out of adjustment they would not get back into adjustment on their own.

Finally, if the Electric Hand was rebuilt by someone beside yourself, it might be worth calling him to ask for an opinion.  He might have encountered such a problem during the testing stage, and have some recommendations for you.

BigSky

All good ideas.  I have tried shifting it with the electric hand and with the emergency shifter arm manually, both with engine running & engine not running, she will not budge.  

In the past I had the issue of not shifting pop up a few times but somehow resolved on its own at least temporarily.  However, it’s gotten progressively worse until now with it stuck in gear.  I can see the nub try to move but it doesn’t, so it looks like the Electric Hand is try to work.

Previous owner not an option. 

Shift locks; which it could very well be however I cannot find anything which describes how to adjust it & how I’d know when it’s correct. I re-read my 37 procedural manual but it assumes one knows what to do, so it was of no help as usual. 

Old Fogey UK

It sounds like the transmission lock or clutch pedal linkage out of adjustment. Both have happened to me.
Fortunately, the wisdom of the sages on this website provided the solution for both problems - and their advice was simple enough for even me to follow through !

Geoff

With clutch fully depressed the shift locks should be lifted up high enough for the detent plungers  to move.   Wedge the clutch pedal down and adjust the linkages on the the arms.

Jon B

Big Sky, see Section 10, page 3 of the shop manual, for a picture and explanation of the shift lock ("Transmission interlocking device").  Stepping on the clutch pedal, raises the vertical bar until the notched portion of the bar comes into line with the horizontal lock plunger (# 79).  That would be with the pedal about half depressed.

The horizontal plunger holds the car in gear but it's on a spring, pushing it against the vertical bar.  As soon as the notch in the bar aligns with the plunger, the plunger snaps outward into the notch in the bar, and thus releases the gears to shift.

There are two such shift locks, one on each side of the tranny, easily accessed from under the car.  One lock handles gears R and 1, the other handles 2 and 3.

A round rod at the bottom of the vertical bar, joins the bar to the clutch linkage but there is a nut (actually a nut and lock nut, as I recall) that will adjust the round rod & bar vertically.  That nut may have unscrewed slightly so that the notch on the vertical bar has moved too far down -- this may explain why it's gotten harder and harder to make the shift from 2nd to 3rd gear.

Follow Geoff's advice: have someone push clutch pedal to floor (or wedge with piece of wood), and have him / her attempt to do the second to third gear shift.  Meanwhile, get under the car and observe whether the notch on the bar is now aligned with the horizontal plunger (which should then have pushed out into the notch.

If the notch isn't aligning with the horizontal plunger, back off the lock nut (the top nut) and then tighten / untighten the lower nut, moving the rod (and bar) up and down, until the horizontal plunger's able to engage the notch.  Your assistant should now be able to move the shift lever and change gears.

Because there are TWO shift locks, and I don't recall which one controls gears 2 & 3, you will have to experiment.  But, you should find that this is a rather simple adjustment.  For heaven's sake, tighten the lock nut after you get the shift lock into adjustment!

If I haven't completely confused you yet, you can go to Section 11 (Electric Hand), page 12, "Transmission Shifting Rail Lock" for a discussion on the shift lock in cars that have Electric Hand.  But the Section 10 writeup gives you the basics of the adjustment.

BigSky

Holy Shitzba!  The adjustment worked & I was able to move the shifter by hand and with the Electric Hand!  I will have to fine tune it some more but she’s working again!  

Jon, thank you so much for all your help!!!!!!!

Old Fogey UK

BigSky said:

Holy Shitzba!  The adjustment worked & I was able to move the shifter by hand and with the Electric Hand!  I will have to fine tune it some more but she’s working again!  

Jon, thank you so much for all your help!!!!!!!

I told you so - ask the experts ! 

Jon B

Big Sky:  the invoice is in the mail....

(LOL!)

BigSky

It was “very” hard to adjust the passenger side top nut as there is a bend in the threaded rod that should not be there.  Does anyone have a good one?

This is the bent one, I tried to straighten it but I’m worried it may crack the steel rod & break if I mess with it much more.


It’s hard to really see up there to see that the lockout is working correctly without the floor out over the tranny.  The drivers side had more lift than the passenger side on the rod.  However a good replacement rod would surely allow the full adjustment I need & it to work perfectly.  

Jon B

Try Doug Wildrick or Al Saffrahn for the threaded rod.  Should they not have any, do a mass e-mailing to Hudson suppliers who advertise in the WTN, with a dimensioned sketch or photo of the link rod.

The rod has a "jog" in it, in the shop manual illustration.  Does the bent one also jog in the same way?  Watch the operation of the cross-shaft as someone depresses the clutch pedal: does it pivot smoothly or is it somehow bent so that it twists the link rod?  Very strange that the rod is bent at that point (the tension is above that point).  Possibly a rock on the road hit it, or someone backed the car over a stump or something, which caught the bottom couple inches of the rod and twisted it.

BigSky

The rod does have the correct offset bend (Jog) in it.  I’ll have to see if I can spot anything else having a bend in it that shouldn’t, however that maybe difficult not knowing how exactly a correct one looks.

Old Fogey UK

Is it necessary to have 2 interlocking mechanisms ?
On my car (lhd), there is only one and it's on the driver's side.
There's no sign of it ever having had 2 and everything works OK with just the one.
The manuals only refer to a mechanism on the one side.

Jon B

Hmmm.... I had thought there were two.  Maybe not!  (Haven't been "down under" the car lately.)

Old Fogey UK

Jon B said:

Hmmm.... I had thought there were two.  Maybe not!  (Haven't been "down under" the car lately.)

My car is the entry-level LTS Challenger model. Perhaps that's why it only has one?
According to ROC sages, you don't need the interlock at all if your clutch is OK and the pedal is adjusted properly.

Old Fogey UK

Old Fogey UK said:

Jon B said:

Hmmm.... I had thought there were two.  Maybe not!  (Haven't been "down under" the car lately.)

My car is the entry-level LTS Challenger model. Perhaps that's why it only has one?
According to ROC sages, you don't need the interlock at all if your clutch is OK and the pedal is adjusted properly.

The original interlock on my car was lost by the engine/transmission rebuilder.
The ROC advice was "Don't bother with the d----d thing".
However, a helpful HET guy provided me with a complete assembly.

BigSky

All I can say is in 1937 they had 2 mechanisms one on the drivers side & one on passenger side.  

bob ward

QUOTE
According to ROC sages, you don't need the interlock at all if your clutch is OK and the pedal is adjusted properly.

From this do I understand that the gearbox contains all the usual ball detents etc so the gears will always stay in their selected positions while driving? If so, what was the purpose of the clutch interlocks, something to do with electric hand?

Jon B

The clutch interlock "locks" the ball detents in such a way that the gears can only be changed when the clutch is depressed.

Old Fogey UK

I drove mine for a while without the interlock.
It would appear that all it does is to make you press the clutch pedal right down to change gear.
The Citroen Traction Avant also had an interlock but that was because of a design fault in the gearbox (according to the Traction Owners Club) that meant the transmission would frequently jump out of second gear without it.