Cylinder head for 1938 Hudson 112

JohnGooderham

Guys:  I'd welcome advice on how to locate a cylinder head suitable for my 1938 Hudson 112, which is an inline flathead 6 cylinder motor, but with a 3.5litre rather than the standard 2.9litre engine.  I'm guessing that the exact part won't be available, so suggestions as to what might fit would be appreciated, and where to find one.  John

Jon B

Just to clarify: are you saying that someone has replaced the original 3" x 4-1/8" engine with a (more powerful) 3"x5"? I would think that a (used) replacement for the 3 x 5 wouldn't be that hard to find. Have you contacted any of the vendors who advertise in the WTN?

JohnGooderham

Jon:  I don't think that's what I'm saying.  My understanding is that most Hudson 112s were built with an inline 6 engine of 175 cu in (or 2.9 litre) capacity.  Mine was delivered  in the UK on 23 July 1938, with the 212 cu in (or 3.5 litre) engine.  The first registered keeper was from 1938 to 2001, and there've been 5 other owners until me.  She's only done about 36,000 miles over 82 years.  You suggest that a used replacement wouldn't be hard to find, but I don't get the WTN.  Google searches don't seem to be much help, so where do I go from here, please? John

Jon B

Apparently your "212" was delivered new with a 3x5 engine (212 CID) which is unusual, because taxation was dependent upon horsepower in the UK, therefore the U.S.- exported cars were usually of lower horsepower to make them more desirable.

Be that as it may, your engine is the 212, which is popular here in the States.  (I didn't realize you were in the UK.)  So, yes, it will be more difficult for you to find a cylinder head than if you were in the U.S.   First, have you explored having your head welded?  (I'm assuming it's cracked)?  Second, have you tried to contact the Railton club?  Railtons, of course, used Hudson running gear, so it's possible they may know someone who sells used Hudson parts in England.

Barring either of those possibilities, and because you're not in the H-E-T Club, I would guess you're doing the best you can by leaving messages on this forum, which is world-wide.

JohnGooderham

Thanks again:  I'll follow up your two suggestions, starting with the welding possibility.

PaulButler

@JohnGooderham The Railton club is a start however they do like you to be a member

I'll have a look through the latest WTN for you and see who's in there that may be of help however if you PM your email address I'll also email you a copy of a recent magazine as well for you to peruse.

Like Jon I was a little surprised that you have a 212 as well but who knows what decisions were taken back in 1938 as to what needed to go where

PaulButler

Actually I don't need you to PM it , as the Admin I can see it anyway - copy on its way. Really consider joining the club as well, it's remarkably good value and gives you access to other people around the world via the official club website

PaulButler

On its way John , September / October 2020 edition. Multi-year award winning magazine as well

JohnGooderham

Received with thanks, as I've already said, I think.  Welding the cracked cylinder head might be the best option, having tried Steel Seal twice.

PaulButler

John,

Have you investigated Cold Metal Stitching? I have seen this done with some great results. There are a few companies around offering it but I have seen this mans work in action:

http://www.lockwellengineering.co.uk/cylinder-head-reconditioning-repairs-midlands.php

JohnGooderham

Paul:  Thanks again.  I've booked into another specialist welder in the midlands, who also does cold metal stitching.  He'll decide when he sees, in early April, what to do with my cracked cylinder head

PaulButler

Good luck John , it's a dying art unfortunately but always fascinates me to see it in action 

Old Fogey UK

There's a company in Leicestershire that does metal stitching. They're highly regarded for it and have been doing it since the 1980s.
 I can't recall the name offhand but they advertise in The Automobile. 

bob ward

I'm somewhat puzzled that no one in the US or Australia has offered to post a 212 head to you, there would have to be many dozens sitting in parts stashes. 

JohnGooderham

Bob:  Thanks; I was slightly disappointed that nobody has offered to sell me a 212 ci cylinder head for my 1938 112, though I didn't think there would be many out there

MikeSheridan

I thought the 112's were 175 cu in displacement.

durandjv

I have some heads from 40's 212 engines, I think they are the same.  May have a different part number or marking not sure.  Not sure what it would cost to ship it from the USA.

JohnGooderham

Mike:  Most 112s were indeed 175 cu in, but my 112 was built in UK and - contrary to expectation - is bigger at 3.5 litres, ie 212 cu in.

Durandjv: How do we find out if yours would fit, etc?

barrysweet52

Both the 212 and the 175 heads will fit. I have 1 or 2 175 heads and 8 212 heads. Postage from the USA will be cheaper than from here in Australia. Used heads should be washed out, crack tested, tested for warp and measured to make sure they havent been machined greater than 60 thou - before posting. Most heads will have corrosion around the ports and need facing.

JohnGooderham

Barry:  Many thanks, but I've decided to have the crack repaired by metal stitching or welding.  If that proves impossible, after inspection/assessment, I'll get back to you.

durandjv

Sorry I took so long getting back to you, the book shows all 6 cyl head gaskets are the same from 36-47.  There are several part numbers for heads for different years, but looks like they are mostly changes in temp sender thread size.  So, I think about any of them will work.

JohnGooderham

Durandjv:  Thanks for that reassurance.  But as I've said to Barry, I've now taken the cracked head to be welded or stitched by a specialist here in UK.

JohnGooderham

Old Fogey UK: I found the metal stitching specialist in Leicestershire (though with a Derbyshire postcode)and I've taken my cracked cylinder head there

Old Fogey UK

JohnGooderham said:

Old Fogey UK: I found the metal stitching specialist in Leicestershire (though with a Derbyshire postcode)and I've taken my cracked cylinder head there

Have you joined the Railton Owners Club yet ?
They have lots of secondhand parts, maybe even a head you could use - and you wouldn't have the cost/hassle of getting one outside the UK.

PaulButler

JohnGooderham said:

Old Fogey UK: I found the metal stitching specialist in Leicestershire (though with a Derbyshire postcode)and I've taken my cracked cylinder head there

John,

Please post photos of your (hopefully good) experience if you can

JohnGooderham

Paul:  I don't do photos, sorry.  But I'm very pleased to report that Slinden have now repaired by cold metal stitching my cracked cylinder head, which has been reinstalled in my Hudson 112.  All I had to do was paint and pay, which I managed, and drive away from local garage here in Billingshurst, West Sussex, UK.

PaulButler

Excellent news John!

It's a dying art it seems and glad you found someone who still practices it

JohnGooderham

Paul: Thanks again for your encouragement in getting this fixed.  My returning difficulty id with the engine cutting out when hot, eg after about 30 minutes.  Leaving for another 30 minutes was the only immediate solution.  Ten I hoped I'd got this sorted with a shield welded to protect the carburettor and coil, but the problem has returned.  Is there an issue with the carburettor, do you think?   Or what else might need attention, please?

Old Fogey UK

I had this problem but fixed it by moving the coil away from the exhaust manifold.

JohnGooderham

Old Fogey:  Thanks for the advice: I'll try that next.

Old Fogey UK

When I first got my 1934 car, the coil had been moved to the inside of the car. I put it back where it belonged when I restored it. I experienced your problem pretty quickly and realised why the previous owner had moved it.
The coil is now back hidden behind the dashboard.