WTB metal timing gear

dantheman

I'm still looking for a metal timing gear and matrching crank gear for a 36T 212 splasher. Would like to make the change over this winter.

lostmind

I wonder why someone hasn't remade these, seems like a good market.

Rocket

A freind of mine looked into having these made out of alu and they were between 6 and 7 hundred dollars each so he gave that idea up.

35 Terraplane

Can someone tell me what years the fiber gears were used. My 30-39 Master Parts Book shows four part numbers from 30 to 39 for the crank shaft gear all listed as 19 teeth  and five part numbers from 30-39 for the camshaft gear all listed as 38 teeth.   I'm thinking I've read here that if you have a set of the later aluminum gears they would work on any year from 30-39 with a slight modification.  Is this true? 

Geoff

No, it is not true.  You either have to have the metal cam gear cut to match the  original crank gear, or use a matched pair.   The pitch changed from 14-1/2  to 20 deg. in 1941, and an alloy cam  gear was used from 1948 to '52 on the 8's.  A matched set of crank and cam gears, with alloy cam gear, was available as a retro-fit for all  models, but I have not seen any of these for many years.  

Old Fogey UK

I have a steel crank gear but it has a chipped tooth.
I'm willing to lend it to anyone who can get it copied for anyone who wants one - including me !

dantheman

I installed a NOS fiber cam gear when I rebuilt the engine last year but the stories of them comming apart is in the back of my mind when I'm crusing along.  Still can't figure out why the engineers would design the engine with the crank journals so close to the cam that they hit if out of sync! Otherwise it would be no big deal if the gear did fail!

35 Terraplane

I guess I asked my question in a confusing way.  Geoff's answer confirmed what I was thinking in that a retro-fit set of gears for all models was manufactured.  I have this set I purchased from a club member a few years back along with instructions.  The crank gear is marked 162165, which is the part number from the 41 parts book.   Very difficult all the markings on the cam gear but both are clearly marked 20 which the 41 parts book indicates is the pressure angle. I intend to install these in my 35.  In the mean time I was thinking of looking into having new sets made using these as masters.  You never know I might get lucky.

dantheman

Let me know if you find someone to reproduce them. I would be interested in getting a set.

bob ward

Seeing that these gears are being retro fitted to earlier engines that have 14.5° pressure angle gears, a cheaper option would be to keep using the existing crankshaft gear and make 14.5° camshaft gears to suit it. Make 1 gear instead of 2.

35 Terraplane

Curious, as I had above the 30-39 parts book has the crank shaft gear all listed as 19 teeth and  the camshaft gear all listed as 38 teeth. The set I have pictured above are 28 / 56 teeth.  I'm guessing the change in pressure angle may dictate the change in the number of teeth.  Any clarifications would be great.

BigSky

35terraplane, you might consider swapping out the phenolic cam thrust washer in your picture for something more long lasting.  I believe Wildrick still sells the brass version of the cam thrust washer.  

35 Terraplane

BigSky, the fellow I bought the gears from included the phenolic spacer. I’d check the Wildrick web site and indeed they have a brass/copper version of it which I’ll use.

Old Fogey UK

Here's my gear set. It looks different from 35T's.
The steel gear has some damage to some teeth (see pics) - probably caused by a gear puller. Opinions, please, on whether it's still useable ?
If not, could a machine shop repair the teeth ?

bob ward

The 2 cam gears have been made from different starting points. 35T's gear has been machined from an aluminium forging, yours has been machined from a solid aluminium round.
Not sure why your gear has one slotted bolt hole.

I'd use that crank gear for the short term but I'd be keeping an eye out for an undamaged gear. The damage looks to be on the rear of the teeth, it may have been caused by something (escaping bronze thrush washer?) going through the teeth. But no matter, the damage is there.

A gear repair is most probably uneconomic, maybe 2 or 3 hours of shop time for the most basic repair and no guarantee that the bits added back to the teeth won't come adrift.

bob ward

The timing gear photo in the 34 to 39 mechanical procedure, i.e. for 14.5° fibre cam gears, shows gears with 28 and 56 teeth.
Factory crank gears have 20 on them which yours does not, from which there are 2 possibilities. One is that its a factory 14.5° gear which can't be used with a 20° cam gear or its an unmarked aftermarket 20° crank gear.
Someone on here will know if that's an early 14.5° gear.

Old Fogey UK

bob ward said:

The timing gear photo in the 34 to 39 mechanical procedure, i.e. for 14.5° fibre cam gears, shows gears with 28 and 56 teeth.
Factory crank gears have 20 on them which yours does not, from which there are 2 possibilities. One is that its a factory 14.5° gear which can't be used with a 20° cam gear or its an unmarked aftermarket 20° crank gear.
Someone on here will know if that's an early 14.5° gear.

I'll take it down to a local engineering shop and get them to confirm the technical specification of these gears - I'm only a lawyer and I wouldn't have a clue !
The gear set has been lying around in a box of spare parts for years and, at the moment, the NOS fibre gear I had installed is hopefully OK.
If the spare set is useable, fitting it might be a project for next winter.

Old Fogey UK

I've found the box that my NOS fibre gear came in (see pic).
The box says 20 degrees and the fibre gear doesn't run noisily, so I'm assuming the other gear in the motor is also 20 degrees.
My aluminium gear originally came from the ROC who, apparently, had some made up as 20 degree gears. So, I'm hoping when I get round to pulling things apart this winter, I'll find that the steel gear already in there is also 20 degrees and I won't have to use the chipped gear - fingers crossed !
The Railton Club Parts book has some information about timing gear sets and manufacturers' parts numbers. If anyone wants that info, please message me.

BigSky

I went through a bugger of a time last August when I replaced my cam thrust washer on my 37’s 212 engine & ultimately had to take things apart twice to get it all fixed.  So before you replace your cam thrust washer &/or the cam & crank gears feel free to learn from my challenges and look at my old thread(s) on it all.  Hopefully it makes yours go easier!

35 Terraplane

Will do.  I recall following your thread on that job. 

Toddh

35 Terraplane said:

Can someone tell me what years the fiber gears were used. My 30-39 Master Parts Book shows four part numbers from 30 to 39 for the crank shaft gear all listed as 19 teeth  and five part numbers from 30-39 for the camshaft gear all listed as 38 teeth.   I'm thinking I've read here that if you have a set of the later aluminum gears they would work on any year from 30-39 with a slight modification.  Is this true? 

Geoff said:

No, it is not true.  You either have to have the metal cam gear cut to match the  original crank gear, or use a matched pair.   The pitch changed from 14-1/2  to 20 deg. in 1941, and an alloy cam  gear was used from 1948 to '52 on the 8's.  A matched set of crank and cam gears, with alloy cam gear, was available as a retro-fit for all  models, but I have not seen any of these for many years.  

50SuperFalcon

It seems this subject hasn’t been touched on but on other makes they have to run fiber gears because it’s a safety thing . If your cam seized up the gear would strip out saving your whole engine. 

Just a different view point

barrysweet52

1932 to 35 the crank timing gear I believe was 7/8". Dont know why the width was increased to 1". There is not a lot of load on the cam gear and I would have thought the chipped tooth would make no difference.