Help! 1934 Hudson Transmission won’t go into 2nd or 3rd!

Guardian1fox2

Not sure what happened. Went and picked my son up in it the other day, no problem at all. This morning I went to take it to work as my wife had a flat and I told her to take my truck. Started off in first and was going to go into second and it’s like i hit a wall, just solid not even able to go into that or 3rd it’s the same thing no grinding or anything just a wall. Goes into first and reverse fine. So I drove it into garage, aired her tire and drove it to work I’ll get it fixed when I get off. Anyone know what could be the issue? I’m not familiar with these transmissions or standards in general. I believe it was rebuilt when the motor was done. Hopefully it’s just an adjustment. If it is, do I remove the cover on floorboard to access? Thanks so much

Uncle Josh

Sounds like your shift cable is out of adjustment.  Slotted bracket at lower end of steering column.

Guardian1fox2

Uncle Josh said:

Sounds like your shift cable is out of adjustment.  Slotted bracket at lower end of steering column.

Thanks Josh! I looked it up in the manual I have on my phone, I wasn’t really following what it wants me to do, or maybe I’m looking at the wrong section. I guess that’s why I was having shifting issues too. What exactly do I need to do? I’ll look at it when I get back from work so I can move it back into shop lol

Jon B

Shift cable?  In a 1934?

Old Fogey UK

No shift cable on a 1934.
It sounds like your sliding transmission lock needs adjusting - and that's about as tricky as playing Star Trek 3-Dimensional Chess against Mr Spock.
If you don't have a helper, it's easiest to take the floor out so you can see what's happening as you press the pedal down.
If you have the original '34 transmission lock slider, it's worth swapping it out for the '35 one which is better.

Guardian1fox2

Old Fogey UK said:

No shift cable on a 1934.
It sounds like your sliding transmission lock needs adjusting - and that's about as tricky as playing Star Trek 3-Dimensional Chess against Mr Spock.
If you don't have a helper, it's easiest to take the floor out so you can see what's happening as you press the pedal down.
If you have the original '34 transmission lock slider, it's worth swapping it out for the '35 one which is better.

That’s what I saw in the manual; it was kind of confusing what it was wanting me to do. Boy I bet a ‘35 piece is unobtanium lol so what’s the best way to adjust this thing? Crazy how it can completely prevent transmission from working at all, but still allow 1st and reverse. No wonder I was having so much trouble going into second if this can happen lol

Old Fogey UK

The Railton Owners Club made up a batch of 1935 sliders and guides and, if you want, I can enquire for you. They only sell to members and therefore I'd have to order them for you.
 I actually got my complete 1935 set up from a fellow HET member - it's surprising what's out there if you ask around.
 I needed it because my engine rebuilder lost the guide for my '34 slider - I think I still have the other bits of the '34 lock if you decide to remain "stock" and you can have them if you need them.
 I never adjusted the '34 set up,so I can't help you with that.
If you get a '35 slider, it's worth lengthening the bottom of of the cut away section - that makes adjustment less of a fine art.

Jon B

Guardian, do you understand the concept of the lockout bars?  It's really quite simple.  The vertical bars are mounted on the left and right sides of the transmission, and move up and down inside guides which are bolted to the sides of the transmission.  The bar on one side controls the Reverse and First gears; on the other, the Second and Third gears.

When you step on the clutch, a linkage pushes both bars up (or pulls them down; I forget which.)  The linkage controls both bars at once.

Two spring loaded balls inside the transmission, slightly protrude from each side and rest against each sliding bar.  Each ball is prevented from moving further outward because it rests against the vertical bar.  Pressing against the ball from the inside of the transmission, is a linkage to the gears inside.  The shift can only be made if the balls can move further out of the transmission, but the bars prevent that.

There is one notch on each of the vertical bars, facing in towards the transmission.  When you depress the clutch, the clutch linkage raises both bars until that notch on each aligns with the ball on that side.  The ball pops outward into the notch, which permits the shift to be made. (Both balls pop outward simultaneously, thus but the Reverse / First and Second / Third shifts may be made at once.)

If the notch does not align with the ball when you have depressed the clutch, you are unable to shift the gears, because the ball can't move outward on that side of the transmission.  This situation could occur in either, or both, of the bars.  In that case, either the Reverse / First shift, or the Second / high shift -- or both! -- can't be made.

The linkage's connection to both bars, has an adjustment.  It's a nut (and a lock nut too, I think) and as the nut is rotated, the vertical bar on that side of the transmission will move up or down.

You need to get under the car and ask a friend to sit in the driver's seat and depress the clutch all the way.  Watch the notch in the bar as it moves up.  Do you see the steel ball popping out of the transmission into the notch?  If not, rotate the linkage nut and move the notch in the bar up or down, until the ball pops out of the transmission. 

That's it.  Tighten the lock nut.  The R / 1 or 2 / 3 gears should now shift.

Having adjusted one side, it pays to look at the other side and test it.  The adjustment on the other side might allow the ball to only protrude slightly, making a difficult shift.  Fix it now before it gets worse.  An accident waiting to happen.  

Geoff

Just  a slight correction to Jon's description.  It is not a "steel ball" that pops out, but a straight round shaft.   As Jon says, with the  clutch pedal fully depressed the cut-out in the lock slide should fully raised so the shaft can  come out.   another thing to check is the movement of the pedal.  Has it altered? Is it further in to the floor?   it could be that the pin holding  it to the cross shaft is loose.   

Old Fogey UK

My 1934 car has only one linkage mechanism (on the left side) which I think is normal for the year - I haven't seen another '34 with two.
The ROC tech adviser has written that you can take it off the transmission altogether if it's a nuisance - but with the risk that you might jump out of gear now and again.
 I didn't follow that advice but, out of necessity, fitted a '35 set up.
The '35 mechanism is more robust and if you slightly increase the length of the cut out downwards, adjustment doesn't require fine tuning so long as when the pedal's released the slider drops down far enough to block the pop-out.
The Mechanical procedure manual is confusing because it deals only with the rather different post-1937 mechanism and, consequently, isn't much use to someone trying to do the adjustments on an earlier car !

Guardian1fox2

Thanks SOOO much guys for the info! I’m going to try the adjustment tomorrow. Been in a funk I’m not all to happy with how I got trim installed on the front of the roof so I’ve been sulking cause I can’t really remove it at this point without destroying trim or my new vinyl. Wondering if I messed up getting this car and not starting with something a little easier lol maybe it won’t be so bad after I get the silicone on it it’s just not flush on the corners like I wanted cause of the distortion. 

But anyways; that explanation really summed it up for me! Ima get my son to push clutch tomorrow and I’ll see about adjusting it seems pretty straight forward! 

Old Fogey UK

How bad does the roof look ?
Don't lose heart, there's always a way to correct a mistake.
There were lots of times over the years when I wished I'd bought a Ford V8 instead because of the quirky problems you get with a Hudson but, really, they are much nicer cars than Fords.

Old Fogey UK

And I forgot to say, Hudson owners are much nicer too !

Guardian1fox2

Old Fogey UK said:

How bad does the roof look ?
Don't lose heart, there's always a way to correct a mistake.
There were lots of times over the years when I wished I'd bought a Ford V8 instead because of the quirky problems you get with a Hudson but, really, they are much nicer cars than Fords.

It’s prolly not as bad as I’m making it seem I’m just OCD and want it perfect lol. I’ll post pic to my other thread! 

Guardian1fox2

Actually looks like a ‘37 clutch linkage is installed, but something doesn’t seem right? 

Guardian1fox2

When I first got under car I found the bottom pad was almost all the way off, and the top pad the part that sticks through looks like it’s messed up even though it all looks new. Not sure what happened to bottom one but maybe that’s my problem? The nipple that goes through other side is gone and perhaps it’s coming off. 

Guardian1fox2

okay, I went ahead and ordered 2 new pads will be here Friday from Wildrick. But while underneath I had my Aunt come by and press clutch, sure enough it wasn’t allowing it to move. Looks as though there’s no backing nut on the adjustment so it just gradually went out. However, I notice it still kinda clunks when going into second. Perhaps that’s the pad issue. 

Guardian1fox2

Took it for a drive, man…shifts into each gear but if I’m sitting there car running no grinding into gears. Increasing in speed…no grinding of gears. Coming to stop, even after going into neutral from 3rd, then going into second or first after I’m already sitting there grinds gears. I’m afraid I’m damaging a new rebuilt transmission. I’ve also noticed while driving it sounds like a have a tick tick tick sound coming from trans. Guess I should park it until I figure it out. 

Old Fogey UK

That looks like one really weird set up on a '34 car !
It looks like a hybrid with bits and pieces from different years.
You should, at least, have a pull-off spring on the pivot arm on the side of the gearbox and the pivot arm looks like it's been installed upside down compared to mine.

Guardian1fox2

i just got back home from a trip to grocery store. Man weird stuff happening I hope I didn’t tear up a new trans. I took a video ima upload to YouTube and post here maybe someone can watch and give advice. Shifting up is no issues, downshifting and shifting at standstill is issues. Now when I got back, when in first and clutch fully depressed the car shakes…something has got to be up with the clutch. The tapping or ticking sound is only when trans is turning when in neutral no sound. 

Old Fogey UK

This is what a 1934 clutch lock should look like.

Guardian1fox2

When the clutch is depressed those two pad things don’t move hardly at all. Man I hope I don’t have to tear everything apart I really don’t have the ability to do all that right now. Just wanna enjoy the car 🥺. Reallllly feeling like I should’ve got something like a Ford my kids have only rode in it twice cause every time I turn around it’s something lol. 

Guardian1fox2

Here’s a video: https://youtu.be/JNleQgOC8Kg

Also reached out to Doug for advice. 

Guardian1fox2

Also, I found this about trans, maybe it’ll help someone see what I can do.

Guardian1fox2

I got the rubber pads in today. How do I change them out? There’s nothing in the manual about it lol 

tigermoth

Where does the other end of this tension spring attach and how long is this spring?

(The horizontal spring of which only the wire end is visible in this picture.)

Toddh

Guardian1fox2 said:

I got the rubber pads in today. How do I change them out? There’s nothing in the manual about it lol 

There are no rubber pads on the clutch arm for the 34/35 like on the later years.  There’s a rubber bushing that goes in the clutch pivot on the bell housing

Toddh

I see that you have the later clutch clutch pivot arm on yours.  Mine looks like Old Fogey’s pictured above. 

To change the rubber pads on later models, you’ll need to remove the clutch pivot arm out of the car. 

Old Fogey UK

tigermoth said:

Where does the other end of this tension spring attach and how long is this spring?

(The horizontal spring of which only the wire end is visible in this picture.)

The other end of the spring goes through a hole in the frame.
 I used one of those adjustable return springs you can buy in Napa and cut it down to the right length.
 The pic shows the clutch lock on the 34 that Jim DiGiorgio used to have.
 I have put a complete 35 clutch lock on mine which works the same way but requires a hole drilled through the pivot arm that the slider rests on in the 34 set up.
If you want a pic of my set up and where the spring attaches to the frame, let me know and I'll crawl under the car tomorrow and take some pics.

Old Fogey UK

Guardian1fox2 said:

When the clutch is depressed those two pad things don’t move hardly at all. Man I hope I don’t have to tear everything apart I really don’t have the ability to do all that right now. Just wanna enjoy the car 🥺. Reallllly feeling like I should’ve got something like a Ford my kids have only rode in it twice cause every time I turn around it’s something lol. 

Studying the pic of your clutch lock, it looks like you have the the 35 slider set up (like mine) combined with the 37-3? Rubber pads.
Wow ! - it's a real mongrel but I guess it'll work if set up right.
Just about every Hudson owner I know goes through the "Wish I had a Ford/Chevrolet/Plymouth" stage at some time - hang on in there, you'll come through it !