1935 Clutch linkage

TerriblePain

I have a 35 four door sedan with the straight eight.  No Electric Hand.
I believe I am missing a piece of the clutch linkage.  The pedal pushes down on the clevis where you make the adjustment.  The clevis rotates what I call the pivot shaft.  Then I see an arm on the side of the tranny that I believe operates the clutch

  My car is missing whatever goes between the pivot shaft and clutch arm.
Any help on locating one or describing what it looks like would be appreciated greatly.

Geoff

The arm with the whole in the end is most likely for use with a long-removed electric hand.  The pivot shaft, as you describe, goes through the  bell housing, and has a fork pinned to in which sits over the throw-out bearing and disengages the clutch.  

TerriblePain

Thanks for the quick reply.
I feel zero tension on 'the pivot shaft'.  It doesn't feel like it works against anything at all.  The arm on the tranny rotates a few degrees and springs back, making me think it actuates the clutch.  This arm also seems to be associated with the adjustment mechanisms on both sides of the tranny.

TerriblePain

Just to clarify...since I am using my terminology.
The clutch pedal, via the clevis and pin, transmits motion to the 'pivot shaft'.  The pivot shaft has three holes in the driver's side for adjustments.
The pivot shaft pivots, and I believe should transmit motion to the arm on the side of the tranny.  This arm only rotates a few degrees and springs back to it's home position.  It reminds me of the clutch fork arm on 60s Chevies.
I have nothing connecting the 'pivot shaft' to the arm on the side of the clutch.
Thanks again for advice.

Geoff

It would appear that the taper pin holding the actuator to the pivot shaft has sheared off.
Does the shaft move at all?

Old Fogey UK

I've pics of the whole assembly on one of my earlier threads if you trawl back through them.

TerriblePain

Hello.  I looked thru your old threads and could not find a picture that clearly shows my area of concern.
The pivot shaft as I call it (the adjustment yoke on the clutch pedal connects to the drivers end of this shaft) moves freely.  It has what looks like a finger on the transmission end of it.  This finger does make contact with what I call the clutch lever.  The clutch lever does rotate freely.  It is spring loaded.  I estimate it rotates about 20 degrees and then springs back to it's resting position.
When the clutch pedal is depressed, it will rotate the finger, but since the finger is not connected to the clutch arm...the clutch arm doesn't move. The finger needs to pull the clutch arm to rotate it. I think I am missing whatever connects the finger to the arm.  I envision this item sliding over the arm and somehow capturing the finger.

Old Fogey UK

I'll go through all the pics I have on my PC tomorrow and find some of the mechanism and I'll private message them to you.

Geoff

It is held on to the arm by a taper pin, which is most likely broken.    Check that the shaft is turning when  the pedal is depressed.

TerriblePain

Thanks.  I do think everything is moving smoothly...clutch pedal goes to floor...but it doesn't move anything at the clutch.

lostmind

Listen to Geoff, the pedal is moving, but is the SHAFT moving?

TerriblePain

Yes.  Pedal moves smoothly.  It transmits motion thru the adjustment yoke to the pivot shaft.  The pivot shaft rotates smoothly.  Those seem perfect.
But...I have nothing connecting the pivot shaft to the lever that operates the clutch.  The clutch lever rotates about 20 degrees when I pull on it so I think it is ok too.  It springs back to its rest position smoothly.
I just have nothing connecting them to each other.

lostmind

remove the floor cover for the transmission. You should be able to look in the bell housing and see what's happening.

Geoff

Are you sure the  pivot shaft is rotating?   Check that the right side lever (as in the picture) is moving exactly the same as the left.

Old Fogey UK

Geoff said:

Are you sure the  pivot shaft is rotating?   Check that the right side lever (as in the picture) is moving exactly the same as the left.

I don't think there is a right side lever on US built 1934 and 1935 lower priced Special model cars, only one on the left side.

Old Fogey UK

I've sent you those pics.

TerriblePain

I replied to your message.  Thanks again for help.
Attaching pic and sketch here too.

TerriblePain

As I look at this again, I wonder if down in the grease behind that brake cable, if the pivoting shaft and the clutch arm are supposed to be connected to each other down below the axis.  Maybe a pin that goes between the two.  I can't get my eyes far enough up in there to see evidence of a connecting method.  I don't feel anything there either.

tigermoth

 would be helpful to clean the gunk from the car to see what you have. As a 40 year mechanic that would be step one for me.
regards, Tom 

tigermoth

* should have been a question 

would it be…..?

regards

Geoff

The shaft is connected to the lever by a taper pin. 

TerriblePain

I cleaned out the gunk.  I attached a sketch.  I am thinking the shaft that the clutch pivots is installed incorrectly.  Right now, it has to pull the clutch arm through it's rotation.  I believe it should push the arm thru it's rotation.  Makes sense too, so the two items aren't firmly locked together.
My drawing is poor, but you can see the current relationship in the picture.  The rounded profile of the arm makes me think it should be on the other side of the clutch arm. 

TerriblePain

After more investigating, I believe my new theory was incorrect.  I think the parts are in the correct positions.

Geoff

Yes they are.

TerriblePain

The only thing I can think of is that the clutch arm should rotate further counterclockwise.  How many total degrees should it rotate?  Mine only rotates 15 or 20 degrees.

TerriblePain

The bushings on my clutch arm are real thin...only an 1/8" thick or so.  Should those be a lot thicker?

onerare39

TerriblePain,

I think you may be better served by having someone from the club come out and give you some advice and assistance.  Being located east of Spokane, Washington puts you in a good location, you sit right on the dividing line between the Northwest Chapter and the Gem State Chapter.  I'm sure there are folks in the area that would be able to help diagnose the issues you are having and recommend a solution.  Spending $35.00 to join the Hudson-Essex-Terraplane Cub is the best money you will spend.  You will receive a Club Roster to locate people in Washington and Idaho and around the world, and others with an identical car.

Go to HETCLUB.ORG to join.

 

TerriblePain

I agree.  I should join.
Thanks to everybody for the help.  Long story but I got the clutch to work.  I pushed all of the possible slack out of the linkage and put the pin thru the hole on the end to eliminate grinding.  Maybe it is normal, but the clutch engages way towards the very top of the pedals motion...when it is almost totally released.  Is there a way to adjust the engagement closer to the center of pedal travel?....I bet not ..but I thought I would pose the question.
First time the old car has moved under its own power in who knows how long.  Pretty cool.  The old cable brakes stopped worked but I was only in my driveway.
Thanks again.

Geoff

Fit the clevis pin in the hole closest  to the pivot point to give greater movement.