Unusual starter noise

railknight

I attempted to start my '53 Super Wasp this morning and the starter reacted with a strange sort of rattling/grinding noise (the car didn't start).  Consequently, I replaced it with my spare and still got the same sound.  The car did start however, and the rattling noise disappeared.  I removed the spare starter to see if anything was loose in the opening for the starter and couldn't find anything and the flywheel gear teeth looked fine.  Any suggestions on where to look and check?  One thing both starters have in common is that if I push and pull on the starter Bendix shaft there's about 1/8" play.  

railknight

I found out what the problem with the starters was.  When I looked at the original starter, I notice that the spring was ready to come off the end of the shaft. I compared it to the replacement starter and noticed the collar that holds the starter spring in place at the end of the shaft was missing.  A long screwdriver inserted into the starter mechanism; protective cone fished out the loose collar much to my delight.   This obviously explains why I had the same issue when I used my replacement starter. 

It was a bit of a learning experience that perhaps others may benefit from should they face the same issue "down the road."  "Happy Motoring" everyone!

StepUp

This post is timely. My ‘54 Duper Wasp has the Detroit Gear DG200 transmission. My starter also makes a strange rattling and grinding noise at times. Sometimes it also seems to get stuck to the point it and cannot turn the engine over. I’ve been thinking the ring gear on the tranny might be broken but after reading your post I might remove and inspect  the starter first.

WABOOM

^^ I also have a DG200 in my '54 Hornet. Every once in a while my starter acts wierd. I'm gonna pull it soon. I have a new starter drive unit I might put on.

sacky

I also have the DG200 on my 54, Had the stater rebuilt, installed new drive, new battery, timing right on, new 00 battery cables, new ground cables, starter still slowly grinds most times but will start engine or kicks out, on my 2nd starter, have thought about shimming one way or another and have wondered if the Hydromatic guys have the same problems or if these just start this hard. Anybody have any thoughts? Thanks

StepUp

My starter works great 9 out of 10 times (90%). But on those 10% fails, the starter gear either grinds really bad and doesn't engage or it engages with the ring gear but doesn't seem to have enough umpf to turn the engine. The first few times this happened I thought the battery was going dead so I put it on a charger. But through trail and error I've determined it's not a battery or electrical power issue.

Now whenever this lack of umpf occurs, I pop the hood, turn the engine by hand by grabbing the water pump fan and turning the crank clockwise about 180-270 degrees, close the hood, push the starter button, and luug-lug- bang!, she fires right up. Unusual?

I believe the cause is either a worn starter or the ring gear is either bent or cracked.

railknight

StepUp, the other day I received my starter back that was fixed at a shop in Fox Lake, IL that exclusively repairs starters and generators (many from vintage tractors, marine engines and motorcycles) from all over the country.  The individual who runs this shop told me that a small amount of light oil (such as "3 IN 1") applied to the Bendix starter mechanism will often help it work more smoothly. Just something to consider.  

StepUp

Thanks for the advice. I'll try it.

Hans

Some old Essex manuals recommended the use of kerosene, and not to use oil.

29sptphaeton

At my Dads Hudson Dealership we had an oil pump can with kerosene in it for spraying Hudson starter drives. Especially in the winter when snow and ice could affect them. Just pop the hood and spray it good.

StepUp

Kerosene? Wasn’t that banned during the, “killer hole in the ozone layer” decade?? Admittedly I’m beginning to lose track of the scares, bans, and imminent mass extinctions. It has become impossible to stay abreast of all this clamoring. 

Regardless, I’ll look for Kerosene at my local neighborhood Hardware Store (it’s huge and is called Home Depot). I don’t personally know the owner but it obvious to me he’s done something right. You wouldn’t believe me if I told you how many SKUs he stocks. And most of it is imported! 

cheyenne7271

Your local oil supply company will carry it, and any other specialized oils and lubes too. 

railknight

Some jet fuels are kerosene-type such as Jet A and Jet A-1, JP-5 and JP-8. Perhaps they can be used as a light lubricant too. If so, you may want to purchase some at a general aviation airport.  

Max162

I have the same problem with my 54 Super Wasp that does have the DG-200 transmission and it's giving me some trouble lately.

A couple of days earlier I tried to start the engine after nearly a year of slumber ( had to do some repairs during last summer on it ). The starter cranks, but when the engine tries to wake up, the Bendix seems to retract too early, as if it doesn't have enough umpf to turn the engine.

The starter I have does have a shim on it. I remember that it struggles to start the engine or fail to do so with the shim. without the shim, the starter cranks and turns better, but I can hear the the Bendix gear grinding on the flywheel when running. The starter has been rebuilt 2 years ago if I remember and was still working weird.

I've done some good cleaning on my unit, but it doesn't want to cooperate with me. I wonder if there's something missing on the starter or if it's a common problem with this model: my starter is an Autolite MCH 6204. I'll still do a tune up on my car and check if my problem is something else.

Max162

Update: I've decided to do a little disassembly of the starter so I can make a proper cleanup and inspection of the Bendix and I have some questions.

As seen on the picture, I saw a thin washer moving freely on the Bendix shaft. Something is telling me that this is not normal, but I'm not quite sure. Any confirmation will be appreciated.

My other question is the spring itself: while searching for informations on how Bendix drives works, I noticed that on some of them the spring was fully compressed while the spring on my starter drive isn't. This might be a dumb question but I want to know if it's normal for this starter dive model spring to be less compressed.

If it has to be fixed or replaced, I would like to know where I can find either a new starter drive or a new Autolite MCH 6204 starter unit.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Max