Valve adjustment

464Saloon

I am in the process of finally putting a Twin H on my 54 Special. I figured this would be an opportune time to adjust the valves since they will be about as easy to get to as they will ever be. The service manual only shows a hot adjustment which really I don't know how you would do since they are not exactly easy to get at. I of course wouldn't be able to do that anyway with the manifold off. I assume there has to be some kind of cold adjustment as you would need that when rebuilding the engine. Would anyone know what that is or have a suggestion what would be good? I think mine are a little noisy.

Thanks

[Deleted User]

Here is the info you need. This is supplied on Alex Burrs tech site. Its a procedure from Jack Clifford for adjusting the valves cold.

http://groups.msn.com/HudsonTechnicalInformation/19ts783valveadjustment19481954sixexcjet.msnw

464Saloon

That was quick. Thanks 51, printing her out right now

JP

Rob



You are a popular guy. If you could clean out your private mail box when you get a chance I'd like to send a private message (nothing to do with valves). But given all the work that you have been doing on your 54 you really might want to consider buying the CD's that Alex Burr has to offer. There is a lot of Hud history stuff--but also a good collection of these tech letters that Hudson sent out, that often offer something different (updated) from the shop manuals.



Alex can send me my usual royalty for the plug.



JP

[Deleted User]

Have to second that. I have bought everything Alex has to offer. If you own a Hudson you need to own this collection. And best of all you help support a fellow HETer who is doing a heck of a lot of work to save this information for future Hudson owners. I for one like browsing through this stuff when I am on the road traveling. I then dazzle my fellow travelers with Hudson quizzes people love this stuff....

Geoff

I would still recommend doing a valve clearance check with the engine hot, particularly if you are using stainless valves. It's not that difficult, but you do have to remove the inner guard and right front wheel to get access. Once you get inside there it's not too bad. You will be surprised at the variance with a hot engine. Better to take the effort and be doubly sure.

Geoff.

464Saloon

I ended up pulling the panel out anyway and taking the tire off. That panel almost doesn't come out on my car between the hood hinge and the horn. I may pop the horn off because I plan to paint the panel while it is out and I don't want to bang it up. Sorry about the PM's, I'll clean some of the old ones out. I never know when I need to go back and reference something.

Unknown

464Saloon wrote:

I ended up pulling the panel out anyway and taking the tire off. That panel almost doesn't come out on my car between the hood hinge and the horn. I may pop the horn off because I plan to paint the panel while it is out and I don't want to bang it up. Sorry about the PM's, I'll clean some of the old ones out. I never know when I need to go back and reference something.

On the stepdown "8's" you have to pull the inner fender panel off to access the distributor. I believe the panel comes out between the drum and the fender, not from above.

Unknown

Are you saying you have to remove the inner fender access panel ( that bolts in place ), or are you saying that you have to remove the entire inner fender to get access to adjust the valve on the Hudson "8"? I have removed the access panel on the passenger side of the inner fender many times, but it looks like you might not have enough access to adjust the valves. An old time Hudson mechanic told me that to adjust the valves, you have to remove the entire inner fender on the passenger side. Do you know if this is true?



When you adjust the valves hot, I assume you run the engine up to temperature with the passenger side wheel off, and the inner fender removed ( or inner fender panel ) - then shut down the engine and pull the valve access panels off to adjust the valves. From this thread's recommendations, hot is a much more accurate setting methodology than cold. Also this trhed referenced a chart for adjusting the valves on a Hudson "6" - does anyone have a link to a chart for the Hudson "8"?



Adjusting the valves on a "8" looks like a big job - maybe the ticking is not that bad afterall



BST RGDS

GARY ( happychris )

[Deleted User]

Check out this other link on Alex's site. Has info for 8's

http://groups.msn.com/HudsonTechnicalInformation/8ts7712valveadjustments1948to1956.msnw

Unknown

I saw that link and copied the information on the "8", but I was hoping to locate a valve lash adjustment chart like they had for the "6" showing the valve and the steps to adjust furnished by Jack Clifford.

http://groups.msn.com/HudsonTechnicalInformation/19ts783valveadjustment19481954sixexcjet.msnw

Geoff

All you need to do is work by the firing order of 1 6 2 5 8 3 7 4. Remove the plugs in order to wind the engine over by the fan belt, or the flywheel if you take th cover off. At any stage you will have two valves fully open, one exhaust and one inlet. On the eights the arrangemnbet is EIIEEIIEEIIEEIIE, looking in to the valve chamber. Start with No. 1 exh valve fully open, and you adjust No. 8 exh, and the opposite number inlet to the one that is also open. Sorry I can't put my finger right on which one it is, but there will always be two valves at each end fully open. When you have adjusted those two, turn the euninge over 1/8 of a turn, and No. 6 exhaust valve and another inlet will then open, so you adjust the opposite numbers. By the time you have wound the engine over one complete turn you will have adjusted all the tappets. One important point though, always hold the tappet bolt with a spanner when you loosen the lock nut, don;t just ry and undo it by turning against the clamp. Two things can happen, you can twist the camfollow off centre, or you can break the bottom off the guide.

Geoff.

Unknown

Thanks! I think I can follow that process. Thanks for the warning about holding the tappet bolt! Do you or anyone have any input on if you can adjust the valves by just removing the inner fender access panel, or do you have to remove the entire inner fender?



BST RGDS

GARY ( happychris )

Geoff

Looking at my '53 Hornet, there is no seperate access panel, so I guess your 8 cyl is different. It's no big deal taking the inner fender off. Remove the front wheel, undo all the relevant bolts, and the wiring from the various clips etc, and you can manouver it our from underneath. And on your car it is much easier than our r.h.d. models, as you don't have th steering box or linkages to worry about.. Once you have that out it's not too difficult to do the tappets, and it's easier than on a 6, as the manifold allows better access. Good luck.

Geoff.

Unknown

I've never done mine hot but I wonder how fast you would have to work as the car will start cooling as soon as you shut it off. If you take too long the adjustments done last would differ from the ones done first. Just my feeble thoughts. Maybe the mass of all that metal stays hot quite a while?

Geoff

You have a good half hour or so to work before anything changes that much. Takes quite a while for a big lump of cast iron to cool down. Of course you need to give the car a good run with the inner guard off, so you can get straight on to it whie it is still warmed up.

Geoff.

464Saloon

I have not been able to find anything on how often the valves should be checked. Nothing in my service manuals. Does anyone have a an old owners manual for a stepdown that might mention the mileage intervals?

53jetman

We always recommended checking valve adjustment every 10,000 miles. Of course we were streching the oil change interval to 2,000 miles at that time (1948 thru 1955) using Valvoline 10W-30, which had just hit the market in early 1948. Valves were always adjusted hot, and with the engine running.



Jerry

53jetman

Unknown

Hot valve adjustment is with engine idling! Norm Blackmer has invented a tool to make the job a little easier, one less wrench to hold on to! Check out the last couple of WTNs for article on it.

Geoff

I see no advantage, and some disadvantages in trying to adjust the tappets whilst the engine is idling, and there is no reference to doing this in the workshop manual. Providing the tappets are adjusted with the cams in the correct position, the adjustment done with hot engine, not running, is accurate enough. It is easy enough to rig up a push-button switch to the solenoid so you can bump the engine over on the starter each time you need to turn to the next two tappets.

464Saloon

Wow with the engine running, what an incredible mess that must make. The valve covers leak enough if you don't have fresh soft gaskets in there. I have done mine cold and with a starter switch I have. Worked well so far. I was just looking for a number on miles to check mine at since I only did them once when I first got the car, then the motor blew and now I am just short of 500 miles on the new motor. I've got headers now too so I am not looking forward to doing them.

SamJ

Sounds like putting this stuff in the magazine is a complete waste of time...

[Deleted User]

As Geoff has said I do mine when the engine is hot and not running. Not brave enough to stick anything in running engine. I use the Clifford method and a jog switch takes about 15 mins tops.

464Saloon

I used the Clifford method but cold. I don't have the sheet in front of me but I am pretty sure that is what it says to do or maybe it gives you both

Sam for what it is worth, you didn't waste your time. I am going to see Norm at a CIC event on the 9th and he is going to bring his tool for me to check out. I may need it when my next adjustment is done now that I have headers.

[Deleted User]

Yup Jack says cold in that doc I prefer hot its more accurate. I use his procedure as you have two valves up and two down so one revolution is all that is required to complete the procedure. Fast and easy. If you prefer cold nothing wrong with that either.

[Deleted User]

There are many ways to "skin-a-cat" (they say) and many ways to adjust the valves on a Hudson big 6, in this case. This is my way. You old time Hudson wrenches can stop reading now.

The firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4. #1 and #6 are pairs (the pistons come to TDC at the same time) as do #2 & #5 and #3 & #4.

I start with #1 cyl. To find #1 TDC turn the eng. in direction of rotation (with a remote starter switch if working on a eng. in a car - just "bump" a little at a time. Watch the valve action on #6 cyl. When the ex. valve is closing (coming down) stop turning the eng. just when the in. starts to move up. This is the valve overlap position. #1 cyl. is near TDC between the compression and firing stroke. Now adjust the valves on #1 cyl.

Next we will adjust #5 cyl. (next in firing order). Rotate eng. watching the valve action on #2 cyl. (#5's pair) as before - while turning eng. - it will only take 1/3 of a turn. Now adjust #5's valves. Repeat this till all cyls. are done.

To me this is simpler then looking at a chart, numbering valves & etc.

It might help to mark the in. (or ex.) valves (either on the spring or on the side of the block) so you don't have to think about which is which when going to the next cyl.

Feeler gauge "feel" - If you are aiming for .012" a .012" gauge should slide in easy - but a .013" won't go in without forcing.

I have adjusted the valves on a Hudson big 6 - hot - engine running (from my old Chevy 6 days), hot - not running and cold, which works best for me.( .012" in. and .019" ex.) Norm

Clutchguy

Using the firing order,not running and cold for me too!!.I have had real good luck with this method.I guess I would do something different if I was having concerns.When doing any valve adjustment,it is best to know what kind of condition the valves are in?If you have had someone grind the valves and valve seats,was there any seats that were sunk or below the deck after the V/job?.If so,and you chose to leave it alone,just grind it,remember that the valve spring will have less tension at the installed height and can cause a miss or engine balance problem-and probably won't last long!! I only mention this because alot of machine shops have younger guys in them and they think that this is-JUST AN OLD ENGINE"and everything will be fine.I just did a 308,and the valve seats were cut real deep and they were just left like that.They did replace most of the guides but still only did part of the job-none of it correctly.

Geoff

SamJ wrote:

Sounds like putting this stuff in the magazine is a complete waste of time...

Not at all Sam. The article in question was well worthwhile printing, but as mentioned, there is more than one way to skin a cat! (Not that I've ever tried it). Making the tool illustrated in the article would indeed be worthwhile if you had an engine fitted with headers, as these make the job very difficult due to limited access, and having to work by feel. However, it would take me much longer to make the tool, than to adjust the tappets the normal way using two spanners, on a standard manifold engine. And it is a job that I would only perform very seldom on my Hornet, so I would probably mislay the tool somewhere in the workshop between uses. As far as the most accurate way to set tappets, we see there are various opinions, and I have given mine - engine hot, and adjusting the opposite valves to the ones that are fully up. this ensures that the lifter is right on the heel of the cam. Others have their preferred method, it is up to each individual as to whose advice they will follow.

Keep up the good work!

Geoff.