Coolers

Unknown

Has anyone tried using a fin tube (or other) style of cooler for engine oil or gasoline. I ask since there have been some discussions on members cars running hot, overheating and suffering from vapor lock.

[Deleted User]

Dave53-7C wrote:

Has anyone tried using a fin tube (or other) style of cooler for engine oil or gasoline. I ask since there have been some discussions on members cars running hot, overheating and suffering from vapor lock.

By adding a large capacity filter to the fender wall and using large copper tubing a fuel line, my wife's grandfather stopped the Pacemaker from vapor locking in the city. So I am told by my mother-in-law. He also made a fan shroud for the radiator. It just hung on the radiator and was not a full shroud. I am told these worked/helped.



That being said, I have not used them and will have the fuel line returned to OEM specs. I suspec the engine needs a good internal bath. I am going to try the Rust-Out methode first.

kamzack

Dave53-7C wrote:

Has anyone tried using a fin tube (or other) style of cooler for engine oil or gasoline. I ask since there have been some discussions on members cars running hot, overheating and suffering from vapor lock.

I'd suggest using an electric fan and creating or buy a shroud from one of the street rod vendors. Fans are available with 6 volt motors. Problem is, sitting or driving in city traffic water pump fans don't have enough rpm's to pull sufficient air through raditor. Also todays gas has a lower boiling point, which escelates the percolating of fuel.

The electric fan should come with a thermostically controlled off and on. Above 30 MPH, you don't need a fan because there is suffient ram air to cool it. Having said that, with the electric fan, ya don't need the water oump fan and without it you have a slight increase in HP.

I've come to learn that Hudson folk are not that concerned about authenticity, but are inclined to seek what works best in keeping Hudson power functiong at its' best. I kinda cringe when I see something other than a Hudson engine in the bay. The Hudson engine can be made to be as dependable as anything else out there. They do require a little chassie maintaintance, but well worth the reward of not meeting yourself several times a day in your daily.

Hope this is of some encouragement,

Kim

Unknown

Thanks for the replies. I've heard of people doing everything from what you mentioned to installing radiator fans with more blades. But Pacemaker500, I'd be careful about giving such an old engine and internal bath. You may dislodge pollutants to the point where they'll go places not intended. Also, you may wind up with oil leaks. Drop the oil pan clean it out if you want, but just changing oil regularly should be all the cleaning you'll need.



Kim, no offense, but if I ever develope an overheating problem, I would try my best to stay away from an electric fan. I'm like you are with engines, I like to keep my cars as original as possible. But doing some sort of shroud sounds reasonable.



Dave

Unknown

yeah, flushing the engine with chemicals, is not a good idea, unless the engine is apart, and all of the internals are out, then cooking it or dipping it might be the best route. I would be hesitant to do much other than careful flushing with H2O, and run it thru multiple times.

HUDSONNUT

If you are having overheating problems you may want to talk to Walt Mordenti. He writes the Walt's Garage articles in the White Triangle. His phone number and e-mail address is in the White Triangle.



I have a '50 Sper 6 308 w/ 262 head. After we completed the engine rebuild (New engine to the car) it ran hot (190+ degrees) during normal driving and hotter in slow traffic. I tried a 5 core radiator, 6 blade fan and then a 6 volt pusher fan and each helped some, but never got it down to running @ 160 degrees where I wanted it.



We drove the car to the Nationals from Arizona and it ran 190 degrees + for the whole trip. At the National's I talked, to Walt and he suggested plugging the bypass on the thermopstat housing. I bought a housing at the National and left it with Walt. After he got home, he put a plug in the housing and sent it to me.



When I installed the modified bypass housing the car immendiatly went from running @ 190 degrees to 160 degrees!!!! Boy was I happy!



I wanted to put AC on the car before we went to the Nat'ls last year but didn't want to do so because the AC would make it run even hotter, so we went on the trip w/o AC. Now after putting in the plugged Thermostat housing I feel I can put the AC in the car before going to Auburn this year.



You may want to talk to Walt and see what you think.



Have a great day and keep those Hudsons on the Road!!



Tom C (Hudsonnut)

SuperDave

Funny how these old cars have their own personalities. I have a well worn 49 super Six 262. Has the original radiator, original four blade fan. I have air conditioning and it never overheats. It does get hot here in Florida! I have a capillary heat guage with the sender in the upper hose at the thermostat outlet. The most I ever saw it run was about 215 in heavy traffic. The dash board OEM guage is about one half .. straight up...Just get moving and it's back to 190-195. Without the air it's about 10 degrees cooler. The 54 Hornet I fixed up for Mac was prone to run quite warm..New four core radiator, same air conditioning set up. That car was very sensitive to timing. Placing an electric fan in a 54 is a challenge...

Now my water pump is leaking again. This is my second one in two years. Better send my core to Kostansic.

Davew

Unknown

Although I'm not having a problem with overheating (it's currently 35 degrees outside and car is not driven in winter here), I was curious how the industrious Hudson crowd has addressed such an issue. I'm sure that I, like many of you, have heard about installing a larger fan, HD radiator or using a surfactant such as water wetter or purple ice. Just doing some winter pondering. As far as Walt goes, he certainly is a wealth of knowledge and a credit to the club. But, from what I've been told, he's supposed to be quite expensive if asked to do work. Not that I doubt Walt, but did he explain the rationale behind the modification he suggested?

[Deleted User]

Dave53-7C wrote:

But Pacemaker500, I'd be careful about giving such an old engine and internal bath. You may dislodge pollutants to the point where they'll go places not intended. Also, you may wind up with oil leaks. Drop the oil pan clean it out if you want, but just changing oil regularly should be all the cleaning you'll need.

Dave:



Thank you for the tip. I found the Rust-Out engine cleaning tip here in the Hudson forum.



Ed

HUDSONNUT

I was quite pleased with the cost Walt charged - don't remember what it was, but less than $40, including shipping and all.



Walts explanation was that by plugging the bypass, it keeps the coolant from resurculating back into the engine before going through the radiator.



In other words all of the coolant goes through the radiator - It's worked for our car. From running 190 degrees + (up to 230degrees one time - I was uneasy!) now 160 degrees even in the Phoenix high temps.



To begin with we thought that the engine was just tight as the entire drive train (Engine - rear end) had been rebuilt and only had @ 1,000 miles on it before we left for our trip from Phoenix to St Louis - to Kearney, etc last summer.



I had spent $650 for a special made 5 core radiator, $60 for a 6 blade fan and $180 for a 6 volt electric pusher fan. If I'd known Walts solution to begin with - I'd have saves many bucks! We spent so much to begin with because it was getting close to time to leave for our trip to the national's and after 5 years work on the car - I wanted to be sure it wouldn't have a problem.



It's doing great now and we'll be converting it to a 12volt system, so we can have AC for this years trip to Auburn and the east coast from Arizona. It'll be a more comfortable trip!



Have a great day!! Keep those Hudsons on the roads & in the shows!!



Tom C

(Hudsonnut)

Unknown

HUDSONNUT wrote:

I was quite pleased with the cost Walt charged - don't remember what it was, but less than $40, including shipping and all.



Walts explanation was that by plugging the bypass, it keeps the coolant from resurculating back into the engine before going through the radiator.



In other words all of the coolant goes through the radiator - It's worked for our car. From running 190 degrees + (up to 230degrees one time - I was uneasy!) now 160 degrees even in the Phoenix high temps.



To begin with we thought that the engine was just tight as the entire drive train (Engine - rear end) had been rebuilt and only had @ 1,000 miles on it before we left for our trip from Phoenix to St Louis - to Kearney, etc last summer.



I had spent $650 for a special made 5 core radiator, $60 for a 6 blade fan and $180 for a 6 volt electric pusher fan. If I'd known Walts solution to begin with - I'd have saves many bucks! We spent so much to begin with because it was getting close to time to leave for our trip to the national's and after 5 years work on the car - I wanted to be sure it wouldn't have a problem.



It's doing great now and we'll be converting it to a 12volt system, so we can have AC for this years trip to Auburn and the east coast from Arizona. It'll be a more comfortable trip!



Have a great day!! Keep those Hudsons on the roads & in the shows!!



Tom C

(Hudsonnut)

Hey Tom,



Thanks for providing all those great details. But I must be getting old and/or missing something. As originally design, the water pump moved coolant through the engine until it reached temperature. So now, with the engine running, the water pump is doing what? Now, instead of the coolant being bypassed into the block, is it diverted to the radiator? When the engine warms sufficiently to open the thermostat, then you have full flow to the radiator. I would think there should be concerns about running an engine, even a cold one, without any cooling around the exhaust valves. Help Tom, I'm confused.

Unknown

The thermostat that came in the Hudson was of the bypass type. When closed it let coolant circulate through the bypass and block. When warmed up and thermostat opened it closed the bypass and all the coolant went through the radiator. These thermostats are hard to find that will seal in the rusted housings now. I cut a piece of .015 brass shim in shape of the gasket leaveing the bypass not cutout. With a thin gasket on each side. A later non bypass thermostat with about a 1/8 hole drilled in it. works ok so far.

Unknown

Billy K.TN. wrote:

The thermostat that came in the Hudson was of the bypass type. When closed it let coolant circulate through the bypass and block. When warmed up and thermostat opened it closed the bypass and all the coolant went through the radiator. These thermostats are hard to find that will seal in the rusted housings now. I cut a piece of .015 brass shim in shape of the gasket leaveing the bypass not cutout. With a thin gasket on each side. A later non bypass thermostat with about a 1/8 hole drilled in it. works ok so far.

OK, I think I get the modifications, but I still don't quite understand how or where the coolant flows. On cold start-up, coolant circulates through the block, via the bypass, to speed warm-up...got that. But if you block the bypass, where is the coolant pumping to? Is the small amount of coolant that would normally flow through the block then bypassed to the radiator? Then, as the engine warms, the stat opens fully. Is that it? If so, it's hard to imaging that this, in and of itself, would dramatically help cooling. Maybe I'm wrong. As far as the brass shim goes, I guess that's better than just reversing the stock type gasket.

Unknown

The small hole drilled in the thermostat lets a little coolant through and to the radiator. As the engine warms the stat starts opening and lets more coolant to the radiator. The gasket wont reverse.

HUDSONNUT

Hi



Walt suggested I use a STANT Thermostat #13476 160 degrees. The plug has a small hole in it to allow a small amount of coolant to flow thru the bypass.



I'll check with Walt to be sure that I'm explaining myself correct. I do know that our car is running @ 160 degrees now where it wasn't before.



Have a great day



Tom C

(Hudsonnut)

Unknown

Thanks for the info guys. I think I'm getting what you're talking about. The original thermostat (which I have a few of) was a mystery to me because even when cold, it looks like its open. I wasn't until I placed one in hot water (and watched it open) that I understood how these marvels of old technology worked. Whatever additional info you can supply will greatly appreciated.



Dave

Unknown

Dave53-7C wrote:

Thanks for the info guys. I think I'm getting what you're talking about. The original thermostat (which I have a few of) was a mystery to me because even when cold, it looks like its open. I wasn't until I placed one in hot water (and watched it open) that I understood how these marvels of old technology worked. Whatever additional info you can supply will greatly appreciated.



Dave

Some if not all the correct replacement thermostats used a rubber gasket like o ring to seal around the top where it fit into the bypass.

Unknown

Billy K.TN. wrote:

Some if not all the correct replacement thermostats used a rubber gasket like o ring to seal around the top where it fit into the bypass.

Billy K, Are you a mind reader? That was a question I had but didn't ask yet. Thanks for that bit of info. Here's what I've found out from others so far:



1. If the thermostat is removed, the bypass must be plugged of it will scavange coolant flow away from the radiator.



2. If you're going to block a bypass and keep a thermostat, you have to drill a 1/4 to 3/8 inch hole in the stat. Otherwise the system will hydrolock.



3. One reason for restricting a bypass (when using a stat) is that not doing so can allow to much coolant to recycle through the block, with less making it to the radiator.



Dave

HUDSONNUT

An additional FYI - You may want to talk to Walt - he machines the by-pass and then plugs the bypass. He also drills a small hole in the plug for a small flow through.



Walt is very helpful - as I'm sure most of you know. He can give you the full reasoning for the plug, but you all have pretty much defined it here.



have a great day

Tom C (Hudsonnut)

hotrodsbyray

you can get info on engine cooling from vintage air. they have research on engines w/ & w/out AC. Mechanical fans usually cool better if blades cover large enough area of the radiator. Removing the stock mechanical and replacing it with a wide puller electric fan is possible but may not actually cool better, depending on fan designs of stock vs replacement. BUT vintage did use a large diameter puller fan with shroud in their salts flats studebaker and ran close to 200 mph with AC running wide open.

a simple shroud that covers 1/2 the fan blade is also great to help cooling. Much more or less than 1/2 and get flow inefficiency issues.

Don't know how air flow is on the hudson but figure a way to seal the front so all incoming air flow goes through the radiator - not around or over. Also if there are inner fender wells then you need a way for air to escape the engine compartment - some type opening toward rear of engine bay. Cool in - hot out.

If not done yet - have radiator cleaned and cored by radiator shop.

be sure ignition timing is on the money.

then - look around at junk yards and swap meets - i have seen several compact, finned coolers with 3/8" inlet and outlet that would help cool incoming fuel charge. some say it help, others say no - i dont have experience with that one.

[Deleted User]

I know it's not original but I took care of a vapor lock problem by cutting the line from the pump to the carb, rotating it 90 degrees and puting a rubber hose over to the fenderwell, inserted a filter mounted to the fenderwell then ran a rubber hose back to the carb. No more Vapor Lock!
Bob Hickson

HUDSONNUT

What year Hudson do you have?

Unknown

Hudsonnut, Who are you asking this question?

[Deleted User]

Hudsonnut, I have a 54 Hornet Special Sedan and a 54 Hornet Special Club Coupe.
Bob