What a crappy day.... long and off topic...

Unknown

I don't know, but since the Sunday of Doc's meet in 2006, I have been thru 3 sets of rotors on the front of my Tahoe. I keep warping them, and today, I had it with the last set, on the way home from work this AM, and decided that they were getting swapped.



I am getting quite good at replacing them, and today, I was like a NASCAR crew member, jacking up the old tahoe, pulling those heavy tires off, and slipping those old warped rotors off. Everyone of you would have been proud.



What really made it a crappy day is the fact that it seems the weather is never great when something needs fixed on one of my vehicles, today, no exception. It had to be 28 degrees out, and cold, and as I write this, I keep getting foot cramps. (getting old must suck...)



I also ended up giving the tahoe an "Italian tune-up" pardon my expression to all of those italian folks out there, but since my wife is part italian, I guess I can say stuff like that, and sorta get away with it.



As far as my italian tune-up, I pulled each spark plug out, wire brushed it, gapped it, and re-installed them. Runs great, although I guess the real tune-up would have been running it around in 2nd gear at high RPM...



Good news is the tahoe is running great, the brakes don't pulse, or grab (right now, give it a month or two), and I was able to treat myself to a Chief Strawberry Crunchy bar, perfect treat for the cold weather. mmmm hmmm.



My real problem is likely the fact I settled on cheap a$$ autozone rotors, whereas I probably should go to NAPA, or even get a pair of GM rotors, but hey, right now, I got a 2 year warranty, and I want to get 10 pairs before the warranty expires... Call it a personal goal. BTW, hudsondad, who has a similar 98 tahoe, except his is red, mine is black, is only on his first pair, and I think he switched right around the time I switched mine initially. I guess he doesn't drive em as hard as I do.



Well, I feel better sounding off, I guess I can go to bed and get a few winks before I start the cycle all over again in a few hours. Hope everyone had a better day than I did...



Later!

Hudsonkid...

rambos_ride

I have a 90 Chevy 4x4 1/2 ton - same problems...I think that the front brakes are undersized causing excessive heat build up.

The rotors are soooooo cheap these days! But the aftermarket sets are $$

I did my brakes about 6-7 months ago, and I'm just starting to notice the "shake" coming back

In Kirkland, where I used to live, the coffee shop I frequent-flyer'ed was less than a mile from my house, but had 5 4-way stops in between!

Seriously, I have had to do my brakes every 14-18 months! :eek:

A sticking caliper can cause warping too...next time I'm replacing everything including hoses...

hudsonguy

I've had a problem of warping rotors when using ceramic pads. They evidently get the rotors too hot during use. I've pitched the ceramics for organic pads and the problems have been solved. Are you using ceramic pads?

[Deleted User]

One thing I have found for large trucks is sending the rotors to Indianapolis and having them cryogenically altered. They get frozen in liquid Nitrogen for about 24 hours.



Many fire departments are doing this as are several NASCAR teams. It makes the rotors last longer and wear better.



I am told there is a similar service for the drums, pads and shoes.



I first learned of this when I lived in Indy (old Fort Ben Harrison in my Army days) and there was an article in the paper about the Indy FD doing this.



And there was a recent "tip" mentioning this on some street racer/trick your ride show on the Speed channel.



I am sure the Return On Investment may not be greatest but the FDs are getting about a 30-55% increase in life expectancy of the parts.

SuperDave

My experience with GM trucks from minivans to Motorhomes is.. They front brake hoses are junk. They restrict fluid flow and allow the pads to drag enought to generate heat and warp rotors.The disc pads only use atmospheric pressure to send the fluid back to the master cylinder.Unlike, drum brakes that have springs to do that. if there is the slightest restriction, the pads will drag and warp the rotors. Been there..done that..8 times on my own vehicles.

Three motor homes, a pickup, three vans and a Safari van ALL needed new hoses by the time they were 5 years old. I have a neighbor that wouldn't listen to me. He has all new brakes(Pads, rotors and calipers) on his CK pickup.. two weeks later, warped rotor. Same old hoses..You know the old saw.. I'll Lead a horse to water, but won't sit on his head to make him drink

Good luck, Davew

Unknown

Be sure to torque lug nuts to specs, following the factory sequence. There has been such a problem with improperly tightening lub nuts causing rotors to warp, most tire shops now display signage stating that they torque nuts by hand. Botttom line, just take it easy with those big old mits. BTW, you're cramping feet were probably bored and trying to go to sleep .:rolleyes:

Aaron D. IL

Could partly be the fact that the rotors are now coming from China cheap and too close to spec to have them machine turned (thin) so when they go bad you just pitch em. Not like good old steal from Gary, IN. I know there's other factors ....... flex hoses are getting pretty rediculously expensive too. Dropped $40 a pop for my Hudson.

rambos_ride

Aaron D. IL wrote:

Could partly be the fact that the rotors are now coming from China cheap and too close to spec to have them machine turned (thin) so when they go bad you just pitch em. Not like good old steal from Gary, IN. I know there's other factors ....... flex hoses are getting pretty rediculously expensive too. Dropped $40 a pop for my Hudson.

I think it costs more to have them turned than buying new ones!

I don't use ceramic pads with the stock setup either.

I'd have to bet my brakes hoses and calipers need to be replaced the next time around (6 months or so!)

hudsontech

Every GM car I've owned in recent years (1996 Olds, 1986 Monte Carlo, 1997 Caddy) all had the same brake problem - pulsing. That's when you push down on the brake pedal if feels like theres an intermittent hi spot.

Replaced the rotors on the Monte - about 400, 500 miles started again; had the brakes down on the Olds - same thing; living with it on the Caddy. Monte started around 125,000, Caddy did it when I got it at 112,000, Olds has about 55,000.

Anybody else with a GM car have this problem.



Hudsonly,

Alex B

SuperDave

hudsontech wrote:

Every GM car I've owned in recent years (1996 Olds, 1986 Monte Carlo, 1997 Caddy) all had the same brake problem - pulsing. That's when you push down on the brake pedal if feels like theres an intermittent hi spot.

Replaced the rotors on the Monte - about 400, 500 miles started again; had the brakes down on the Olds - same thing; living with it on the Caddy. Monte started around 125,000, Caddy did it when I got it at 112,000, Olds has about 55,000.

Anybody else with a GM car have this problem.



Hudsonly,

Alex B

try new hoses

Unknown

hudsonkid wrote:

I don't know, but since the Sunday of Doc's meet in 2006, I have been thru 3 sets of rotors on the front of my Tahoe. I keep warping them, and today, I had it with the last set, on the way home from work this AM, and decided that they were getting swapped.



I am getting quite good at replacing them, and today, I was like a NASCAR crew member, jacking up the old tahoe, pulling those heavy tires off, and slipping those old warped rotors off. Everyone of you would have been proud.



What really made it a crappy day is the fact that it seems the weather is never great when something needs fixed on one of my vehicles, today, no exception. It had to be 28 degrees out, and cold, and as I write this, I keep getting foot cramps. (getting old must suck...



My real problem is likely the fact I settled on cheap a$$ autozone rotors, whereas I probably should go to NAPA, or even get a pair of GM rotors, but hey, right now, I got a 2 year warranty, and I want to get 10 pairs before the warranty expires... Call it a personal goal. BTW, hudsondad, who has a similar 98 tahoe, except his is red, mine is black, is only on his first pair, and I think he switched right around the time I switched mine initially. I guess he doesn't drive em as hard as I do.





Later!

Hudsonkid...

I wouldn't think passing on the exit ramp while the ignition was cutting out at 100mph would contribute to warped rotors or shorten their life. I probably need to give you a remedial class on good driving habits and respect for others on the road.



In any case, pre 99 Chevy trucks have a reputation for poor and undersized brakes, and the aftermarket chinese rotors don't seem to have much longivety. I've never tried the ceramic pads.

Unknown

All good ideas so far. May I suggest new calipers? Thank God and GM that your parts are sooo cheap. They might be hanging up and toasting your rotors. Also changing them will improve you MPG!



Now on your african engineering. Let me tell you a short story. A few years ago I was taking off from a strip in Africa in the middle of the night. Just as I cleared the trees, the number 1 engine went: bang-bang-bang-boom-boom-pop and then quit. I am lucky enough to be able to tell you.............................never clean spark plugs with a wire brush!!!!



It blew a few cylinders clean off of the engine. BTW, my afro-engineer was white boy.



Have a nice day

Steve

Unknown

hudsondad wrote:

I wouldn't think passing on the exit ramp while the ignition was cutting out at 100mph would contribute to warped rotors or shorten their life. I probably need to give you a remedial class on good driving habits and respect for others on the road.



In any case, pre 99 Chevy trucks have a reputation for poor and undersized brakes, and the aftermarket chinese rotors don't seem to have much longivety. I've never tried the ceramic pads.

Geez hudsondad, you got a real major way of making everything sound like I have contributed to the problem. I mean, come on, how many time have I ever passed anyone like that?



Aren't you the one that passed a line painting truck, and oh, the line of 26 cars that were behind it, following like the sign said to? Not that I was counting the number of cars, or anything, but hey, just for conversation....



The one rotor I took off, was visibly warped, I bet, close to 1/8". It looked bent, and I felt it. The pads, are organic, el cheapo, lifetime AZ pads. I torqued the lugs to the prescribed 140ftlbs, and actually check it after driving ~50 miles, and again after ~100.



I am leaning towards the notion of brake hoses, I heard that before, and it seems to be a constant conversation topic, when talking about GM brakes on trucks/tahoes, etc....



Calipers might be in order as well, since brake hoses will warrant bleeding the system, anyway....



The spark plugs came out fine, I made sure not to have any left over particles left in there, and blew them clean, and clear. But now I kinda will have to rethink that method of cleaning...



Tires, wheels stock OEM sizes... just seems the brake system is under engineered for the real capacity needed for the vehicle.



Well, after sleeping for a few, I feel better, I guess....



Thanks for the feedback guys!

Unknown

Hey HK,



Maybe you want to do the "drum brake" update. :rolleyes:

Unknown

smcmanus wrote:

All good ideas so far. May I suggest new calipers? Thank God and GM that your parts are sooo cheap. They might be hanging up and toasting your rotors. Also changing them will improve you MPG!



Now on your african engineering. Let me tell you a short story. A few years ago I was taking off from a strip in Africa in the middle of the night. Just as I cleared the trees, the number 1 engine went: bang-bang-bang-boom-boom-pop and then quit. I am lucky enough to be able to tell you.............................never clean spark plugs with a wire brush!!!!



It blew a few cylinders clean off of the engine. BTW, my afro-engineer was white boy.



Have a nice day

Steve

Round engine or flat?



(I maintain a buncha round engines for the local flying museum 4 T-6's 2 T-28s, and a BT-13)

[Deleted User]

No expertise here.... just some experience. I have driven new Tahoes since they were first available. Two wheel driver four door 1500 varients. Most driving done on freeways at 65+ miles per hour. Michelin Radials with 5000 mile interval balance and rotation. The first experience I had with fading brakes occurred in Fayetteville, NC after a day long drive from central Mississippi. Took the vehicle to the local PepBoys where they promptly told me they wanted nearly 800 dollars to replace every front end component associated with the brakes. With that revelation in mind, I told the service manager a bit of a lie, announcing that I had to check with vehicle owner (I was driving a client provided vehicle) and would be back in am. The next morning I made an appointment with the local Chevy dealer and was told by the service manager ... without looking at the vehicle that is was part of a recall for collapsed brake line hoses. They also said that damage to the brake components attibuted to this failure would be warrented at no cost. So, instead of 800 dollars, Chevy replaced the rotors, calipers, bearings, seals and brake pads at no cost. Since that time I have had the same service done to a 1998 Tahoe. Of the 6 Tahoes I have driven, all have had suspect brakes and most have suffered warped rotors... from the factory parts.



Yes to those who know the drill... there is something cheesy in the brake systems of these vehicles. Have no idea about other models or makes.



Cheers from cold but no longer ICY HOT.

Unknown

My grandma had her rotars warp once on her 97 Olds Cutlass...probably at around 40k miles or so. She's now at about 45k and doing fine.



My car, I'm at 136k miles on my 96 Grand Prix, and as far as I know, orginal front rotars. No warping problems and they work great. Not sure about the Tahoe, but on Grand Prix, it's possible to switch to switch the brakes in from F-Body's, if I remember right. Maybe a swap from another GM is possible? Thats normally a problem on newer GPs, the rotars aren't as thick as the older style ones (like on my car). My cars front rotars, which have been turned once, are about as thick as my mom's front on her 2001 GP, which have not been turned. I've got more solid metal and less venting compared to her still.

[Deleted User]

buggboy wrote:

(I maintain a buncha round engines for the local flying museum 4 T-6's 2 T-28s, and a BT-13)

I would love to have an F-4U Corsair. It would have been great to see what the P-51 or similar engine would have done for it.

Unknown

HOLD THE PRESSES!



The problem with the 1995 through 1999 Chevrolet Tahoes is PRESSED STEEL rotors. This is as opposed to cast iron.



Ask me how I know, I've worked on these things for years, owned three (two 95s and a 2003), good friends with a clutch & brake man, and another good friend is a GM service manager.



The pressed steel rotors are plain junk. Don't buy new ones from GM as they'll be pressed steel too. They can easily be warped by an impact wrench or excessive heat buildup from hard driving, sticking pads, or bad hoses. But I can guarantee your hoses or calipers aren't the problem, it's just a design flaw.



TRW makes a replacement slip-on rotor for Tahoe that is cast iron, and that is the solution. I believe Beck-Arnley does as well. Some of the cheap rotors you get are also cast iron, while others are steel. Look for machining marks around the outside edge of the rotor, if they're there, they're steel. Rough cast = cast iron. I believe the Wearever brand rotors at Advance Auto Parts/Parts America/Shucks/Kragen are iron. These rotors are good and I've used many sets on many vehicles.



My partner has a 95 Tahoe now and it still has the pressed steels, I turned them a year ago, and installed them carefully with a torque wrench. They're still straight, but when they warp I'll go to iron. I am using AC Delco Ceramic pads on it and everything else I can buy them for, including my 02 Chrysler 300M. I generally hate ACD stuff but the brakes are GREAT and come with caliper hardware and lube. They seem less agressive than other brands of ceramics such as Morse, and are guaranteed no-noise.



DITCH THOSE STEEL ROTORS!



Hope this helps

Unknown

jamcoats wrote:

HOLD THE PRESSES!



The problem with the 1995 through 1999 Chevrolet Tahoes is PRESSED STEEL rotors. This is as opposed to cast iron.



Ask me how I know, I've worked on these things for years, owned three (two 95s and a 2003), good friends with a clutch & brake man, and another good friend is a GM service manager.



The pressed steel rotors are plain junk. Don't buy new ones from GM as they'll be pressed steel too. They can easily be warped by an impact wrench or excessive heat buildup from hard driving, sticking pads, or bad hoses. But I can guarantee your hoses or calipers aren't the problem, it's just a design flaw.



TRW makes a replacement slip-on rotor for Tahoe that is cast iron, and that is the solution. I believe Beck-Arnley does as well. Some of the cheap rotors you get are also cast iron, while others are steel. Look for machining marks around the outside edge of the rotor, if they're there, they're steel. Rough cast = cast iron. I believe the Wearever brand rotors at Advance Auto Parts/Parts America/Shucks/Kragen are iron. These rotors are good and I've used many sets on many vehicles.



My partner has a 95 Tahoe now and it still has the pressed steels, I turned them a year ago, and installed them carefully with a torque wrench. They're still straight, but when they warp I'll go to iron. I am using AC Delco Ceramic pads on it and everything else I can buy them for, including my 02 Chrysler 300M. I generally hate ACD stuff but the brakes are GREAT and come with caliper hardware and lube. They seem less agressive than other brands of ceramics such as Morse, and are guaranteed no-noise.



DITCH THOSE STEEL ROTORS!



Hope this helps

The ones I got from Autozone are in fact, STEEL.



I like this advice, and when these warp again, maybe I'll just ask kindly for a refund, and go get a pair of dem IRON rotors, if I can lift them on. Sounds like it makes sense...



And while I'm at it, I might just as well look at doing hoses and calipers, as well. 110,000 miles, probably about time anyway...

Unknown

buggboy wrote:

Round engine or flat?



(I maintain a buncha round engines for the local flying museum 4 T-6's 2 T-28s, and a BT-13)

Continental TIO-360 in a MixMaster! We had a lot of problems with those narrow valve engines and that mechanic.



The reason not to "wire brush" plugs is because it can leave streaks of the brush material on the plug insulator which becomes a path for the spark to follow. We narmally used a plug cleaner which is a mini blast cabinet for plugs. The air compressor wasn't working so our man cleaned the plugs with the wire wheel on the bench grinder. Since plugs for cars are so inexpensive, it is best to replace them any time they are out.



Have a nice day

Steve

Unknown

How much do you think the plugs are for my Tahoe?



and we're not talking a buck or two a plug here....



besides, they only had 15K miles on them.

[Deleted User]

smcmanus wrote:

... May I suggest new calipers? Thank God and GM that your parts are sooo cheap. They might be hanging up and toasting your rotors. Also changing them will improve your MPG!

Steve,

You are right on with the suggestion for the caliper replacement. I've had experience with several 90's era GM products where the calipers would not retract - and these were on Pennsylvania cars.

When I lived in PA, my friends and I would always say "It's too d%mn cold for this s#*t" everytime we had to work on our cars between the months of November and April. Just so I have something to complain about, when I work on my daily drivers here in Las Vegas I say "It's too d%mn MILD for this s#*t"

Unknown

Steel is a wonderful material but more prone to bending and flex under heat than pure cast iron. Get you some iron ones and you'll be happy.

RL Chilton

Hudsonkid-



I didn't see anyone mention it, but the part of the country you live in has a lot to do with warped rotors. While living in VA for the last 5 years, I replaced several warped rotors on multiple vehicles. Never had this problem in TX, but, up North, with the snow and ice (in particular the resulting potholes), leaves A LOT to be desired concerning road conditions.



Perhaps, if Tahoe's have a problem to begin with, as Mr. Cates points out, then I'd expect they'd be doubly bad on sub-standard roads.



Just a thougt, but not much help.



Russell

Hudsy Wudsy

This is all very interesting, but don't you guys see that these crummy rotors and hoses are just part of a leftist, pinko-commie plot to under mine our way of life?

mars55

Pacemaker500 wrote:

I would love to have an F-4U Corsair. It would have been great to see what the P-51 or similar engine would have done for it.

The Corsair never had a Merlin engine installed. However Goodyear created a "Super Corsair" by installing a Pratt and Whitney R-4360-4 Wasp Major engine with 4363 cubic inches, 28 cylinders and 3000 horse power in place of the Corsair's 2000 horse power engine under the Navy designation of F2G. It optain a maximum speed of 431 mph at 16,400 feet. Only a handful were completed by the end of the war when production was cancelled.

[Deleted User]

mars55 wrote:

The Corsair never had a Merlin engine installed. However Goodyear created a "Super Corsair" by installing a Pratt and Whitney R-4360-4 Wasp Major engine with 4363 cubic inches, 28 cylinders and 3000 horse power in place of the Corsair's 2000 horse power engine under the Navy designation of F2G. It optain a maximum speed of 431 mph at 16,400 feet. Only a handful were completed by the end of the war when production was cancelled.

Would that make the F2G Corsair a "Super Wasp"?



I just had to say it, forgive me.



Mark