Wheels and Tires

464Saloon

I know this one has been kicked around before but I haven't seen quite what I am looking for so here goes. I am getting ready for the Western Regional and it is a bit of a drive for me. Currently I am running older General 215/70/15 in front and older Toyo's in back of the same size. Not the greatest ride and handling I must admit. Rims are the stock 15 x 5. I want to have the centers put in a 7 wide safety rim style. I was thinking maybe even going 16 or 17 diameter since I may have more tire choices that way. That's what everyone is running these days. I know I have seen 235/75/15 put on a stepdown but has anyone tried a 245 for more width and a 70 series to get the diameter down so it fits? Thoughts and comments?

Thanks,

nick s

width, not height is your concern. 235 are getting a bit too tight (so no 245's) and you will probably find that 225 is a better option. that in mind 7" will fit but lean twoards 6". either way mopar wheels are out there (guide pin holes was even still there into the 60s).

464Saloon

Is it width that is a problem or diameter? I thought if they were too tall you couldn't get them on and off the back. I went to put a 235/75/15 on there from my Ford truck because I was told the pattern was the same but it wasn't. Didn't look like width was a problem.

[Deleted User]

ON the 235-70-15s I had on My 54 coupe, the tread width was not a problem but the sidewalls would not let the tire go under the fender (The sidewall on most tires is wider than the tread width) unless the air was let out, then after they were on the car they could be aired up and were fine, with no rubbing or binding. On the front the only problem was if you got into a situation where you had to turn lock to lock. at full lock there was a slight rub against the subframe. Again, that was afull lock only. In normal everyday driving I never felt them rub.
On 235-75-15s in the rear you encounter the same problems but from the heigth more than the width. Same fix, let the air out, put them on, air them back up. Front is the same deal Rubs at full lock left or right.
Too much trouble for me so I have 215-75-15 with stock rims on my cars. still tight getting them on in the rear but it can be done.
Bob

[Deleted User]

Hi Hudson Dave here. www.FatWhiteWalls.com . P225=75-15 are the correct size for a stepdown . P225=75-15=OME 760=15 . I nave installed many sets of this size with NO Problems . Dan White posts on this site and he has a set on his car . or go to my website and clic on top and reed what peter had to say about them . T answer your question about wheel size . A 5 Inch wide wheel is good to take a P225=75-15 tire with no problem . The problem going to a wider wheel is in the cross section of the tire will rub on the fender and in some cases you will need to let the air out as mentioned or take the shook loose . Ether way is no fun on the road. Hudson Dave

464Saloon

OK I already knew what stock was I was trying to figure if anyone had tried more. I like the twisties and the look of a wide tire. So it sounds like I am safe to go with a 7 inch rim. Anyone tried going up to a 16 or 17 inch wheel? I would imagine it would be fine as long as the tire you use overall diameter is OK. I am thinking a 245 would be nice. I am not concerned about the tire change on the road because my spare will be small, and obviously if I have to change a tire that means the big one doesn't have air right.

Unknown

As I'm sure you know, changing wheel diameter will require speedo recalibration. Are there any concerns with the effect on steering geometry when increasing wheel diameter?

nick s

Dave53-7C wrote:

As I'm sure you know, changing wheel diameter will require speedo recalibration. Are there any concerns with the effect on steering geometry when increasing wheel diameter?

the most adverse effects would come in an inrease in the stresses seen in the spindle, bearings, king pins, control arms etc. another side effect would be raising the center of gravity.

[Deleted User]

The only reason you would change the speedo calibration would be is if the diameter of the tire were different! You can have a 235-75R15 tire and then have a 17" or 18" tire be exactly the same diameter, meaning the same number of rotations per mile.

Unknown

I have 15 by 6 1/2 on my 54 Hornet Club coupe, with P225-75-15 tires on them. Front clearence OK, rearend has to be at full droop , with some prying involved to get tires on. I would recommend a 6 inch rim. I don't think you could get a 7 inch wide rim between the brake drum and outer frame member. Lou Cote

464Saloon

308 that sounds pretty good. I would imagine with a 60 series you could go up to a 235 or 245. Did you modify your stock rims or are they a completley different set?

Unknown

nick s wrote:

the most adverse effects would come in an inrease in the stresses seen in the spindle, bearings, king pins, control arms etc. another side effect would be raising the center of gravity.

Thanks for the info. I was wonder what the effects of using an increased tire diameter would do...now I know.

464Saloon

After doing some figuring, it is looking like a 235-65-16 will be perfect. A little more width and .2 inches shorter that stock.

hudsonguy

Another thing to keep in mind when going to a wider tire is not only clearance in installing them on the back, but also the increased clearance required on the front 'turning' wheels.



I've got 225/75's on my '49, and I noticed that after about 16K miles, that the right front is starting to wear a small hole in my steel brake lines where they lay against the outside of the frame. I've also got a steel fuel return line that I routed alongside the stock brake line location, so I'm glad I noticed this now, and not when I was leaking something down the road. This wear has obviously occured when turning hard right, and the wider radial is now contacting things that the original skinny bias ply tire had no clearance problems with.

464Saloon

I am actually thinking maybe a 235/65/16. It comes out withing .2 of the height of the original tire but of course wider. Have to call the rim guy to see what it will cost to modify my rims.

464Saloon

Anyone know what the stock wheel offset is? My car is tied up at the upholsterers and I am still researching this tire thing. I think I am going to stick with the 15 inch but widen them to 7inch and run a 245/70/15. Of course I will stay with the stock spare in case I have a problem on the road.

[Deleted User]

If you start playing with tire sizes you better reinforce the rear track bar at the right side where it connects to the frame rail. Bigger tires will break it right off and then you have a problem. Harder to fix after it breaks. Walt, 53 Hudson.

ivanz62

I agree with this with my 5 1/2" Hudson wheels experience. Speaking of the front, the guys you see driving around with wide rims offset out and wide tires on their pick-up trucks get away with it with power steering and poor steering as a result of moving the tire patch off the kingpin centerline. The normal caster built in gives the effect of "lifting" the car when you steer and the steering return to center is caused by the weight of the car pushing everything back into the straight ahead position. This is the feel that Hudson's are famous for and you shouldn't give up the road feel of for the look of big or wide wheels like "Pimp my Ride". And to put wider wheels on the front the backspace will have to be maintained to miss the suspension

or you'll have wheel spacers and the situation with the kingpin centerline above.

Hope this helps,

Ivan

464Saloon

In doing some more searching on the forum, it looks like up to a 235/75/15 has been put on these cars. I am thinking then a 245/70/15 should go with maybe a little massaging. As for the rear sway bar, that is the first I have heard of that and not sure why that would be.

rambos_ride

464Saloon wrote:

In doing some more searching on the forum, it looks like up to a 235/75/15 has been put on these cars. I am thinking then a 245/70/15 should go with maybe a little massaging. As for the rear sway bar, that is the first I have heard of that and not sure why that would be.

I don't know from experience but common sense would make me think a wider tire on the rear - with the additional stresses of a radial vs. the orginal bias-ply would place an additional stress on the "frame" mounting point - because it's not really a frame it's sheet metal bent and spot welded together...It would be much easier to re-inforce the area first because once it fatigues the repair area will grow exponentially...

464Saloon

I could see if the car was continually used for maximum cornering and the additional grip of the tires transferring the load in place of just sliding. I will look into it but I doubt I will be pushing the car that hard very often.

Hudson Grandpa

464 Saloon.

I'm the one that bought the 54 cpe from Bill A. The car had a big snow tire on the right rear. We are doing brakes. It was a bugger to get off. Guess what. Read what Walts Garage has to say. The rear track bar is busted laying on top of the right rear spring on this car...I'm going with what Bill A recommends in tire size.

464Saloon

I thought it was in this thread but I must have seen it somewhere else. Someone had a formula for the width and height. Here is the kicker. I have been looking at Tire Rack and what is interesting is that the second # 75,70,60 is suppose to be just the height, but if you look at for example a 245/60/15 and a 245/70/15 the 60 series is shorter but it is also wider so something is missing in that formula that I have to get to the bottom of unless someone here knows.

harry54

So Hudson Grandpa..... What size tires does Bill A reccomend ??

Hudson Grandpa

678-15 Bias Ply Remington

464Saloon

With the tire technology available today why would anybody run those other than for show.

harry54

I'm surprised about the Fact that Bill A doesn't reccomend Radials . THanks thou

[Deleted User]

I had Bias-plies tires on my Hudson Coupe and on my cross country trip it was hell to drive the car through cities, uneven concrete, train tracks, driving in the rain you never knew where the car would go. I installed 215R x75-15 radials and after 80 thousand miles of cross country driving I just replaced with a new set, same brand, only because stopping in the rain from high speed driving was getting a little slippery.

harry54

So Walt, If you had 80,000 on the tires , how many miles on the car in total ?

[Deleted User]

464Saloon wrote:

I thought it was in this thread but I must have seen it somewhere else. Someone had a formula for the width and height. Here is the kicker. I have been looking at Tire Rack and what is interesting is that the second # 75,70,60 is suppose to be just the height, but if you look at for example a 245/60/15 and a 245/70/15 the 60 series is shorter but it is also wider so something is missing in that formula that I have to get to the bottom of unless someone here knows.

The 60/70 is the series and refers to the ratio of the height of the sidewall to the tread width, therefor the 60, which is less than the 70 would be shorter. At least that is what I understand.
Bob

[Deleted User]

BJ__TN wrote:

The 60/70 is the series and refers to the ratio of the height of the sidewall to the tread width, therefor the 60, which is less than the 70 would be shorter. At least that is what I understand.

Bob

first set of numbers is width at widest point of tire normally inflated in millimeters. Divide this number by 25.4 to obtain width in inches.



second set of numbers is aspect ratio - percentage of tire width in relation to sidewall height. often referred to as "series".



third number set is diameter of wheel rim.



so, divide first number by 25.4. multiply by second number as percentage. multiply result by 2. add wheel diameter for total height of wheel/tire.



235/75R15 -- 235/25.4= 9.25 X 75% = 6.94 X 2 = 13.88 + 15 = 28.88 inch



so you have a tire 9.25 inches wide at widest point, and 28.88 inches tall.