"Oil is Killing our Cars"

super-six

Interesting reading for us with older cars.



http://www.svmgcc.org/tech_tips/oil_is_killing.htm

Unknown

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[Deleted User]

Reading the Techrobond website gives alot of insight in to why the API is changing the formulation of our motor oil. One of their board members was with GM for years and served on the oversight committee that oversees the API.

Dr. McMillan has served as chairman of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), co-chairman of the Administrative Guidance Panel which oversaw the API Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System, and was an active participant in numerous ASTM and SAE technical committee activities. He was elected a Fellow of the Society of Automotive Engineers in 2002.

So... GM has an interest in inferior oils being on the market - all those SBC's will be seizing, so you'll have to go buy a new car. Obviously Dr. McMillan has an interest in getting rid of the good stuff in our motor oil, you'll have to go buy oil with his Techrobond in it.

They make it seem like it's the environment, but it's all about the money.

Jon B

Could someone summarize the thrust of these articles, for those of use who are not so technologically proficient? Are they saying that most modern oil is going to ruin our valve lifters? Does the oil only have a bad affect on certain components of the engine?

[Deleted User]

Jon B wrote:

Could someone summarize the thrust of these articles, for those of use who are not so technologically proficient? Are they saying that most modern oil is going to ruin our valve lifters? Does the oil only have a bad affect on certain components of the engine?

From what I got out of it is that the new oil wrecks the camshafts of freshly rebuilt MG's. Something to do with square tappets, or something.

Personally, I feel Hudson motors were so well engineered that we will not have any problems, especially if we change our oil when we're supposed to. It's as if Hudson engineers knew that "da Man" would be messing with our gasoline and oil quality 57 years later.

SamJ

royer wrote:

Reading the Techrobond website gives alot of insight in to why the API is changing the formulation of our motor oil. One of their board members was with GM for years and served on the oversight committee that oversees the API.







So... GM has an interest in inferior oils being on the market - all those SBC's will be seizing, so you'll have to go buy a new car. Obviously Dr. McMillan has an interest in getting rid of the good stuff in our motor oil, you'll have to go buy oil with his Techrobond in it.



They make it seem like it's the environment, but it's all about the money.

I'm as suspicious of the motivations of big companies as anybody, but I've worked in the automotive industry since the mid-'90s, and everything I've seen and heard suggests the opposite in this case. Manufacturers have worked hard to create engines which will run longer between oil changes and last longer generally. The "big three" has had to compete with Japanese-made engines, for which 250,000 miles without major work is routine. Naturally, they are concerned about new-car performance, gas mileage and environmental regs, and care little about older cars. But there is no denying that modern cars run better, are more trouble-free and last longer than they ever did.



And, I wouldn't put 50-weight oil in my splasher.



And, I don't care what decals are on the cars, professional race teams use synthetic oil, period.:cool:

[Deleted User]

Royer, don't bet on that. The new formula oils essentially are zinc-free. Zinc is a crucial component to long life on flat-tappet (solid AND hydraulic) cams and camshafts. Roller cams are not affected by the lack of zinc. What happens, when you put in a new cam and/or lifters, the zinc allows the lifters and the cam to properly break in. No zinc, broke engine after only a very few miles. Most engines these days are roller cammed, so it is not a huge deal for engines in NEW cars - just cars that don't have roller cams and lifters. Meaning - OUR cars!



Now, all is not lost. If you run an oil specifically designated for Diesel engines, such as Chevron DELO, Shell Rotella-T, or Amsoil synthetic, there is no problem, because these oils retain the zinc that is IMPERATIVE for Diesel longevity. These oils can be used without problems in all of your gasoline engines. I use the Amsoil synthetic in my Cummins and my '66 Coronet 361, and use the Shell Rotella-T in everything else, including my '37 Terraplane. Regular oil that is NOT formulated for Diesels - well, you're running a crapshoot whether your engine will last or not. Thanks to the EPA, another gov't entity out to save us from ourselves, they'll simply destroy your old car rather than outlaw it.



Closely related to this nonsense is the recent decree by the EPA for "ultra-low-sulfur" Diesel fuel - 15 ppm vs the old blend of 150 ppm. This formula will eventually destroy every single Diesel engine built before the 2007 model year, and currently these is no fuel additive that helps this problem. The new fuel also gells at a much higher temperature (+10 degrees F vs the old fuel ound -15 F or so), causing fuel problems all over the US and Canada. All this took effect January 1, 2007.



Yet another thing to look out for is the Federal attempts at "sealing" new car and truck hoods, making DIY maintenance impossible. Plus, this would make ALL maintenance issues a DEALER issue, driving independent shops out of business. Parts for old cars would be all but impossible to get, forcing everyone into cars 10 years old or newer.



Below is an exerpt from a friend who is the Oklahoma ABATE State Coordinator and his explanation of recent pending OK and US legislation...GET INVOLVED in your State's business and KNOW YOUR legislators on the State and national levels!!

"

As we approach the start of the 2007 Legislative Session in Oklahoma

next week, I want to point out a couple of important developments.

Remember last year when we sounded the alarm about the REAL-ID ACT,

passed on the Federal Level to establish a Big Brother-type National ID

Card posing as your Driver's License? Read the article below--a number

of states, including OKLAHOMA, are submitting legislation in defense of

States' Rights to delay or derail the Federal legislation's taking

effect. Oklahoma's proposed bill is SB 464--ABATE needs to emphasize

support of this bill's passage, so please highlight it on our Website,

Chris. Also, one that's not listed on our site that we need to support

and include is HB 1584, the Right To Repair bill. This is State-Level

legislation that mirrors the Federal-level Right To Repair Act advocated

by the Motorcycle Riders Foundation, which if passed will safeguard the

right of private citizens and small shops to be able to work on motor

vehicles and repair them, as opposed to forcing everybody to only use

dealerships. Thanks for your hard work in researching all these bills,

Chris, and please include HB 1584 on the Home Page list. All of you

Brothers and Sisters out there, PLEASE urge your Oklahoma Legislators to

support both SB 464 and HB 1584, and contact your fellow Oklahomans

recommending they do the same--our Freedom depends on it!"

[Deleted User]

The main tenant of these articles is that the reduction of zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP) in todays oils is causing undo wear on older engines. The solid lifter flat profile cams are supposed to be starved for oil and the ZDDP additive coats the cam thus providing better protection. It should be also stated that zinc coating is useful only when there is actual metal-to-metal contact within your engine, which should never occur under normal operating conditions.

There are articles both proadditive and antiadditive for every ten posted here in favour I can find ten debunking them. I even found a website that listed the zinc additive content by percentage and the oil that everyone was pushing actually had less zinc then plain jane over the counter Quaker State. If anyone wants more pro and con sites I can provide the links.

[Deleted User]

Found the listing am showing the diesel oil here as an example. Added as a graphic because table did not format. Also to be noted More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high. High zinc content can lead to deposit formation and plug fouling. Bottom line pick a good oil change it regularly you should be ok. If you feel the need add a zinc additive like STP and you should still be ok.


And here is a quote off of Shells site about Zinc reduction and wear

The API CJ-4 (next generation) Shell ROTELLA® T multigrade motor oil
will have a slightly lower level of zinc than the current API API CI-4
PLUS Shell ROTELLA® T. Zinc is typically used as part of the
anti-wear system within the oil. However, less zinc in API CJ-4 oils
compared with API CI-4 PLUS oils does not mean increased wear. In
fact, wear protection is one of the key areas where the API CJ-4
category provides improvements over API CI-4 PLUS. (Other areas
include; oxidation stability and soot control). The new API CJ-4
Shell ROTELLA® T multigrade motor oil also meets the requirements of
earlier API performance categories such as API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4,
CG-4, as well as others, and can be used in engines specifying any of
these performance categories.

Hope this formats ok.

Unknown

51 is right here. I have a very good article on oils here I will find and post. Hot Rod magazine runs Rotella exclusively because they say it is the only oil that will properly lubricate hydraulic lifters, and this is a result of their tests. I refuse to use Amsoil, because a few months ago I picked up a bottle and it said "Porche" on the back as one of the cars that used it. First of all, I'm not buying oil from a company that can't spell Porsche, or that doesn't know it's a two-syllable word, (I happen to own one), and secondly, all new Porsches come factory-filled with Mobil 1 full-synthetic.



I run Mobil 1 in all my modern cars and I usually run Valvoline VR-1 20W-50 in my old cars, which is a racing oil with very high zinc content AND anti-foaming additives. I have long thought that the anti-foamers do a splasher a lot of good. Never had any problems with that. Recently I have ran Motorcraft 15W-40 Diesel oil because I bought a large supply of it, and I like it too. I think it may be Rotellla.



For the record, my '29 Hudson splasher ran for 25 years with Castrol 20W-50, and I think it matters a lot less what brand oil you use than that you change it often and use good quality. Also, and perhaps most importantly, all new API designations are supposedly compatible with all previous designations.

Geoff

Just for the record, all Hudson and Essex engines used flat (mushroom) type cam followers up to 1922. Then they changed over to roller cam followers up to 1933. This type does not turn in the guide, therrefore wear is mor to one side, and oil is not wiped around as in the spinning type. The slipper type solid lifters came in with the first Terraplane in 1932. These have a wiping action on the cam, and are prone to wear more than the rollers, although you do get pin and hole wear with the rollers. The solid lifters lasted until the last splasher 6's in '47, and to 1952 in the 8's. Then all Step-downs and Jets used the mushroom type again. These are slightly offset from centre, so that the cam has a rolling, wiping effect on the follower, which turns in it's guide, and the oil would tend to get wiped into the surface area. Due to the design of all Hudson cam followers, I don't see that there is a lubrication problem with any of them, particularly as all H.E.T. engines have the camshaft on the right hand side, where the oil is flung directly on to the camshaft and followers. No Hudson-built engines have directly oiled valve guides, though the 232, 262 and 308 engines do have drilled gallery holes for each cam follower hole. I have been using Castrol 20W-50 for the last 25 years in all my cars, without any lubrication problems. Contrary to some commonly held theories, this does not thicken as it gets hotter. The 20W-50 designation means that when cold, the oils is as thick as a 20W oil, cold, and ewhen hot, thins down to what a hot 50 grade oil equals. Regular changing is necessary with all multigrades like this, as the properties do change with contamination and dilution with combustion by-products, blow-by, etc. The guys who did the thing on cam wear were talking about British M.G.'S. These were super-hopped up ordinary B.M.C. engines, which were'nt designed, they just happened! My 2 cents worth, from a Bush mechanic's perspective.

Geoff.