Floor shift idea. 3spd OD

[Deleted User]

it has been noted that fitting a readily available 3 speed shifter such as a hurst to an overdrive box is complicated by the OD solenoid being directly behind the linkages. in right hand drive cars the linkages operate on a cross shaft system underneath the trans to connect to the levers coming out of the case, i imagine it would be very possible to hang the shift lever along the right side of the case on a bracket bolted to the top of the case, making it possible to keep the shifter body low below the floor. the cross shafts run on cartridge bearings or bushes and are simply operated by heim jointed links. i know this suits RHD cars better than left but if you werent keen on stretching a bit further maybe they could be mounted ahead of the trans levers and connected simply by links and eliminate the cross shafts. just looking at the space i have available in my RHD car it seems possible.

Jon B

...However, if the overdrive transmission is one of the 'late' ones used by Hudson (mid-1952 and later), it's my understanding that you need only bolt in the floor shift lever from a Jeep, or a Studebaker truck (maybe others?), and you're in business.



One of our chapter members did something similar many years ago when he bolted a standard Bord-Warner 3-speed (of about 1952) to a later Hudson Eight engine, added a floor shift lever, and dropped the whole thing into a 1935 Hudson convertible. This car is still being driven around by its present owner. (The overdrive transmission, being longer than the 3-speed, would not have fit between the X-member of the '35).



So, while your idea might well work, you could accomplish the same end result a lot simpler, using the correct transmission.

[Deleted User]

The shifter from a T-90 or T-86 Borg Warner transmission will accomplish the top shifting task easily. They bolt onto the top of the Hudson T-86 transmission where the steel plate attaches with no modification other than removing the side shifting mechanisms and plugging the side holes with freeze plugs. The T-86/90 topshifters have shorter shifting gate than the aftermarket shifters.



Here is the problem when it comes to OD transmissions. There is an internal rail in the transmission body that locks out the OD unit when you shift into reverse. It is absolutely necessary that you address this problem. You can do nothing, but you'll have to remember to pull your OD cable out when parking, or it will roll away as if in no gear at all. The original setup is that when one shifts into reverse, the OD lockout rail (just as if you had pulled out the cable) shifts into reverse and locks out the OD unit. This rail also actuates your lockout switch, which disables the OD relay while in Reverse. In other words, the lockout rail is a failsafe way to make sure your car isn't going to roll away when parked and its impossible to be in reverse with the OD relay "in" - which would destroy your OD unit.



The cure is to leave the 1st/Rev side shifting mechanism in the transmission and mill the internal side shifting paddle to half its thickness and mill the corresponding leg of the top shifter fork the same, so that they both fit into the groove of the 1st/rev sliding gear. You will need to disassemble the side shifter and leave out the detent ball/spring from the side shifter paddle. This way the side shifter paddle still does its original job with the lockout rail and the sliding gear is controlled by the topshifter fork. Place the side shifter paddle behind the milled top shifted fork so your milled surfaces do not affect any heat treated area that comes into contact with the rotating sliding gear.



The other cure is to weld a piece onto the OD rail side of the topshifter fork that operates the OD lockout rail, and do away with the side shifter all together.



I like option #1, as its trouble free and doesn't involve welding anything to the shifter fork that might 1) fail, 2) change the heat treatment of the shifter fork 3) it would give you a way to operate your backup lights via a switch activated by the side shifter 1st/rev lever.



These shifters can be found on various jeeps from post WWII to the late sixties powered by Buick V-6's. They can also be bought brand new for the price of a good aftermarket shifter, and work better than a Hurst Indy.



Hope this helps,

Mark

Unknown

Shudsonator You Have Covered Thelsubject Very Well, I Have Installed The Jeep Top Loder On A 40 Coupe And A 37, Both With Hornet Engines, But No Od. Even Drag Raced The Coupe. Both Still Working Well. Bill Albright, Would Like To Try A Double Lever Od In A Hudson Truck With The Jeep Shifter. One Of These Days. Bill Albright

[Deleted User]

half baked wrote:

it has been noted that fitting a readily available 3 speed shifter such as a hurst to an overdrive box is complicated by the OD solenoid being directly behind the linkages. in right hand drive cars the linkages operate on a cross shaft system underneath the trans to connect to the levers coming out of the case, i imagine it would be very possible to hang the shift lever along the right side of the case on a bracket bolted to the top of the case, making it possible to keep the shifter body low below the floor. the cross shafts run on cartridge bearings or bushes and are simply operated by heim jointed links. i know this suits RHD cars better than left but if you werent keen on stretching a bit further maybe they could be mounted ahead of the trans levers and connected simply by links and eliminate the cross shafts. just looking at the space i have available in my RHD car it seems possible.

Talk to Lee Cherry. He has a 1934 Hudson that I built him a 1952 Hudson 8 which he installed in the car and a 1952 Hudson overdrive transmission that he made into a top loader and all works perfectly. It,s just like driving a 1934 Hudson. Walt.

[Deleted User]

all this milling and chasing jeep parts (they arent real thick on the ground here in oz) and whatnot seems a whole lot harder to ME (im a welder by trade) than going down to the bearing joint for some heims and making linkages and brackets at work. just another way to skin the cat. by using the original shift setup i keep the OD/freewheel lockout when changing into reverse. i imagine it is possible to change the ratio on the linkages to make a shorter throw at the lever. one of the reasons i thought to go this way is to bring the shifter nice and close to me. but what you suggested hudsonator is an excellent direction to go if you have the resources.

Geoff

What's wrong with the upstairs shift? My r.h.d. Jet and Hornet both have it, and are trouble free?

Geoff.

rambos_ride

Geoff C., N.Z. wrote:

What's wrong with the upstairs shift? My r.h.d. Jet and Hornet both have it, and are trouble free?
Geoff.

It's just not the same feel when you're slamming through the gears!

[Deleted User]

geoff, my car had the column shifter a bit butchered when they changed over to an auto. ive kinda gotten steve looking out for a twin lever column set up, mine is a 51 so its gonna be a single. but yeah like dan says it just doesnt feel right!

but who knows i may stick with the trad look and stay column. a lot to be decided.

[Deleted User]

Actually, the shifter can be bought brand new from aftermarket Jeep suppliers - for about $100 USD. That is cheaper than the Hurst Indy and the throw of gear selection is shorter (believe it or not). That's seriously close to what high quality heim joints and materials for your arrangement would cost. If the throw was any shorter, especially between 2nd and 3rd, I'd be worried about smacking it into the wrong gear.



The problem you will run into with over leveraging your side levers is that you won't be able to feel the "click" of the detent balls sufficiently. The mechanical advantage of your top shifter will over compensate for the spring tension.



I labored over options such as you propose, the T-86 topshifter is so easy to bolt on with all these little nuances already addressed - it was hard to not do.



Jeeps are so popular, I'd daresay there is a Jeep parts supplier in Oz that has the exact shifter you need. Used or new.



Once you see how easy this swap actually is, you'll knock yourself in the forehead. I did!



Mark

[Deleted User]

my problem is that i can fabricate but im mechanically hopeless.

if i stay with column i will have to make up a cross shaft, links and bellcranks etc to run from the column to the levers, that stuff is all gone out of my car. we'll see what comes my way.

[Deleted User]

I put a Jeep shifter on a 2 lever trans I plan to install in my '34. The only problem was that the shifter fork rubbed on the oil trough inside the transmission and had to have just a little grinding for clearance.

Jon B

Rod, is this a standard 3-speed, or 3-speed with overdrive? I was given to understand that -- because of its length -- the 2-lever overdrive wouldn't clear the X-member.

Jon B

In fact, there's a Jeep floor shift lever on Ebay right now!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hudson-floor-shift-conversion_W0QQitemZ290088313720QQihZ019QQcategoryZ10076QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem