Pulling the oil pan off a 254 8 - have to drop the steering?

Unknown

One of the guys suggested in another thread that you do a "deep maintenance" on the Hudson 8 before a long trip. I asked him what he meant and he explained that "deep maintenance" involved pulling the oil pan and cleaning out not only the bottom of the pans, but the troughs. I was under the old girl today and had all the small pan bolts out, but was having problems with the two large nuts right under the harmonic balancer. I finally figured out that they were double nutted. Before pulling those nuts off, I looked at the bottom of the pan and am wondering if you have to pull the center point steering from the frame to allow the pan to clear and be removed.



Anyone have experience with pulling the pan off a 8 while the engine is in the car? Do you have to drop the center point steering by unbolting from the frame? Looks like you might have to remove the sway bar also - correct?



What is the opinion - is all this work worth it to clean the oil pan? I change the oil much more than is required. No issues - just trying to do the right preventative maintenance.



BST RGDS

GARY ( happychris )

Unknown

happychris wrote:

One of the guys suggested in another thread that you do a "deep maintenance" on the Hudson 8 before a long trip. I asked him what he meant and he explained that "deep maintenance" involved pulling the oil pan and cleaning out not only the bottom of the pans, but the troughs. I was under the old girl today and had all the small pan bolts out, but was having problems with the two large nuts right under the harmonic balancer. I finally figured out that they were double nutted. Before pulling those nuts off, I looked at the bottom of the pan and am wondering if you have to pull the center point steering from the frame to allow the pan to clear and be removed.

Anyone have experience with pulling the pan off a 8 while the engine is in the car? Do you have to drop the center point steering by unbolting from the frame? Looks like you might have to remove the sway bar also - correct?

What is the opinion - is all this work worth it to clean the oil pan? I change the oil much more than is required. No issues - just trying to do the right preventative maintenance.

BST RGDS
GARY ( happychris )

What year is your "8"? The book on my 52 calls for dropping the front suspension 5" using 6 special bolts. However in a conversation with Ken Schulte, He related to me that you could raise the engine enough to slide out the oil pan on a 49.

Geoff

You have to either drop the suspension, or raise the motor on Step-down eights, and yes you will have to drop the centre-point bracket and tie rods as well. And those two centre nuts are the main bearing cap nuts - they stay on!

Geoff.

Unknown

WHOA! 1st of all, I have a 1949 Hudson Commodore 8 with 3sp/OV. Pulling the center-point bracket and tie rod ends, plus possibly loosening the motor mounts and raising the engine to clear the pan sound like too much to do for a "maintenance" process. Guess I will put the pan bolts back in and do the normal oil change for now.



BST RGDS

GARY ( happychris )

Unknown

Geoff,



It sure looks like those main bearing cap bolts come throuh the oil pan. Ho can you leave them one and still get the oil pan off?



BST RGDS

GARY ( happychris )

Park_W

Gary, the pan flange is actually notched out for those big nuts on the front main cap. Not too evident with the typical amount of crud that collects there. So yes, you take the pan off without disturbing those nuts.

russmaas

I was able to take a pan off a 50 Comm 8 a couple of months ago. But needed to turn the crank to clear the pan. Went back on the same way. Did not mess with the suspension

Clutchguy

happychris wrote:

One of the guys suggested in another thread that you do a "deep maintenance" on the Hudson 8 before a long trip. I asked him what he meant and he explained that "deep maintenance" involved pulling the oil pan and cleaning out not only the bottom of the pans, but the troughs. I was under the old girl today and had all the small pan bolts out, but was having problems with the two large nuts right under the harmonic balancer. I finally figured out that they were double nutted. Before pulling those nuts off, I looked at the bottom of the pan and am wondering if you have to pull the center point steering from the frame to allow the pan to clear and be removed.



Anyone have experience with pulling the pan off a 8 while the engine is in the car? Do you have to drop the center point steering by unbolting from the frame? Looks like you might have to remove the sway bar also - correct?



What is the opinion - is all this work worth it to clean the oil pan? I change the oil much more than is required. No issues - just trying to do the right preventative maintenance.



BST RGDS

GARY ( happychris )

First to answer your question about the pan removal,and perform "deep Maintenence".If you do not know the status of your engine,and this hasn't been done,Do So.If you don't have the expertise,hire it done.Removing the pan isn't that difficult.First jack the vehicle up,support the vehicle with jack stands securely.Drain the oil,put the plug back in.Remove the 3 bolts that hold the center pivot steering to the frame and pull the steering arm down and then push to the side.This will make the wheels turn in opposite directions as the steering arm is dropped down.If you look at the shop manual,it describes a tool to press the tie rod out of the arm,with this removed it does give more access.Remove the flywheel inspection cover and all the pan bolts-EXCEPT 1 on each side of the pan rail.Some cars are still equipped with the splash aprons underneath and it is beneficial to remove them.If you are not familiar with the bolts that hold the oil pan on,refer to the shop manual[mechanical proceedures manual]for description.As mentioned in these threads,the book tells you to raise the engine or drop the suspension,I have found that this isn't required.You might have to raise the engine if the engine mounts/trans.mount are sagging.If they are sagging,K-Gap sells new ones and should be addressed at this time anyway!.I have found turning the crankshaft to the flatest postition on the front 2 journals will allow the pan to slide out.If this is your first time,I would recommend having someone ready to turn the flywheel with a screw driver,while the other person looks at the crankshaft for the "best"position.I usually guess using the flywheel timing mark index as a guide.TDC-on#1- then turn about 90 Degrees puts the front journal about flat.Remember,there is still oil in the upper splash tray!.This should allow the pan to slide out.Once you have it removed,you need to look at the upper splash tray throughly.You need to look for little holes in the dip tray that would allow the oil to seep out causing a lack of splash on start-up.After you clean the tray,hold a droplight or flashlight to the back side and look for any light shining thru! Now looking at the oil pan itself.Most of the time,these are full of sludge.It was the nature of the beast.These engines ran dirty,and I believe oil technology was cause.Remove the oil pick-up float[requires pulling the 1/8th.cotter key out]clean the sludge out[usually requires a putty knife to start with].If it is real bad,you might consider taking it to your local machine shop and have them hot tank it.Inspect the oil pan flange closely.These are usually bent where the bolts holes are,and should be straightened for a proper seal.Splasher are prone to leak,so the better job you do cleaning all the gasket areas and straightening the oil pan,the better it will seal.The front 4 oil pan bolts on most splashers have oil standing on them all the time,so use thread tape on the front 4 bolts and this will resolve many oil leak problems.So now the oil pan is clean,the oil pick-up is cleaned[take the time and remove the cover over the screen,this will have build up you can't get out otherwise]When re-installing the oil pan and splash tray assembly and a new cotter key is in place,flange straightened,use high tack or eqivilent,and secure the first gasket to the pan,put the splash tray on the pan and high tack the gasket in palce there,install your O-ring around the oil pick-up tube sticking up on the pan flange.I've found it is easiest to align the 2 pans by using several center punches big enough that they don't go thru the holes,it takes about 4 or 5 to make it all line up.-MAKE SURE THE REAR OIL RETURN HOLE IS CLEAN AND ALIGNED PROPERLY-After the pan is back on and secured you must fill the upper splash tray with oil.This is done quite easily by removing the distributor.I usually remove the dist.cap,bump the engine over until the dist. rotor is at 12 o'clock for a reference before removing the dist..Usually the dist.gasket leaks also,and should be replaced at this time.Jack the back of the car up so that the engine is somewhat level,get your long funnel out and pour all 7 or 8 quarts of oil thru this hole.This will pretty much fill every oil trough[sp.]with oil and let the excess return to the oil pan.Re-install the dist.at your reference place.I know this sounds like alot of work,and probably is for most,but should be done as outlined in the shop manual.

SamJ

See July/Aug 2005 WTN for a similar walk thru on a 6, with photos...:cool: