4 Door With Suicide Hinges?

rambos_ride

Does anyone have a 4 door with suicide style on the rear?

I'm trying to decide to build my own hinges or buy a kit from Rocky Hinge.

I'd love to see some pictures if anyone has some. I have some pictures of a couple of customs but no close-ups of the hinge area.

I know the biggest issue is designing around the unibody/quarter panel limitations...it's not as straight up as a "regular" car!

[Deleted User]

Dude, suicide doors are B$tchin! Of course, I know nothing of how they are to do, but you have my vote on liking them!

Unknown

Interesting thought! Never seen a stepdown done, but I'm sure you have the expertise to be the first.

rambos_ride

OK - research done...decision made...I'm doing the rear doors only. With a 4 door I think it will look cool to have the front doors open normally and the rear open suicide style.

I'll definitely get the automatic deadman style locks on top of some bear claw latches to guard against the door popping open!

The quarter panels will need a slight modification and I'll have to cut-off the front edge of the rear door that the front door seals against. I'll most likely build out the center pillar and use a universal rubber seal to get the same effect - but I'm not too worried about that part.

I looked at some hidden hinge kits but decided with the nuances of the Stepdown that I could build something for about 200.00 less than a kit and the kit wouldn't have worked on its own without additional modifications because of the bolt on quarters.

I bought about 120.00 worth of steel that should be more than enough to get both sides done!

I'll let you know how it goes!

[Deleted User]

Walt here; sorry to say but it's been done on a 48 Hudson 4 door sedan. All doors open fron the front, hood opens from the rear and trunk lid opens from the side. The car was at the Orange Blossom National meet and then toured the country and took first place at every meet it entered. It was here in SF also. Owned by a doctor but the last we heard it was in New Orleans and was flooded and now we hear that it was bought by someone here in southern CA. Keep an eye for a 48 black 4 door Hudson. The shop that did the work is, LLOYD's AUTO RESTORATION IN BARTOW, FL. I supplied a lot of parts to help finish this car.

[Deleted User]

Dan, I like the rear-only suicide doors anyway, like my ol' 64 Continental. I just think it looks cooler that way.

rambos_ride

walt's garage-53 wrote:

Walt here; sorry to say but it's been done on a 48 Hudson 4 door sedan. All doors open fron the front, hood opens from the rear and trunk lid opens from the side. The car was at the Orange Blossom National meet and then toured the country and took first place at every meet it entered. It was here in SF also. Owned by a doctor but the last we heard it was in New Orleans and was flooded and now we hear that it was bought by someone here in southern CA. Keep an eye for a 48 black 4 door Hudson. The shop that did the work is, LLOYD's AUTO RESTORATION IN BARTOW, FL. I supplied a lot of parts to help finish this car.

I've got pictures of this 4dr car you are talking about and 2 coupes that have had it done. All 3 of these cars had extensive frame and body modifications so I doubt that even if I could have viewed pictures the implementation would be different.



I might be proven wrong but this 4 dr implementation is a little odd in that the doors swing up at an angle and don't open a fully

rambos_ride

jsrail wrote:

Dan, I like the rear-only suicide doors anyway, like my ol' 64 Continental. I just think it looks cooler that way.

I've always liked the Continentals with the rear suicide doors - I painted a really nice black 64 "back in the day" - one of the only Ford based products I like :eek:

rambos_ride

Hudson308 wrote:

I've got plans for this mod as well... but I plan to modify the rear doors only. I'm planning to buy the hidden hinge kits and double bear claws. I'm thinking that retention of the forward edge of the rear doors, where they go behind the front doors, would be an advantage in a couple of ways. The rear doors could not be opened by accident by someone in the back seat, and the stock weather seal lip could be retained. Of course, this means that the front door would have to be opened before the rear, but most often there are people getting in/out of the front whenever there are people getting out of the back.

Door Edge and Seal

I think if you leave that front edge on the rear door - its only a matter of time before you or someone else closes the doors in the wrong order and messes up your paint work or worse causes body damage. Autoloc and others sell an automatic deadman lock created specifically for securing suicide style doors - just put the car in gear and it automatically locks just like newer cars.

As far as replacing the functionality of the seal - I don't think this is going to be a big deal. There are tons of different types of universal rubber mouldings that can be made to work. I'll just cross this path once I get both doors mounted again after the hidden hinge install.

Hinge Pocket Alignment

The only other thing I noticed about the pre-fab kits is that they join the pockets straight inline like in image #1 - which is fine for most cars but the body profile of the Hudson is more at an angle from the roof line down as shown in image #2.

You'll see in image #2 this causes the door pockets to be mounted the in a way which most likely caused the doors in the black car pictured in this thread to open at an upward angle. This would also cause a serious amount of stress and binding just to open the rear doors.

#2 Possible reason for doors
angling upward?

I've never seen this car, just pictures...I do like the car... but I can't imagine trying to open the doors from the inside without some type of shock assist or linear actuator. We all know how heavy these doors are without adding power windows and actuators. I don't know if this was a design goal or not - but I want my doors to open level...

The goal is to get the pivot point of the hinge closest to the outer skin as possible. I actually made my door pockets joined together but offset. By offsetting the pockets I maintain the main hinge point will still be vertically inline as shown in image #3 - this should make the rear doors open level and without binding.

NOTE: you can do these hidden hinge installs without joining the pockets together - but by joining you get superior stability and no chance of getting the hinge pins out of alignment top to bottom.

Anyway, not trying to "one-up" you on the hinge plan - I just wanted to relay what I have found in my research and actual building of the hinges so far - I'll post some pictures later on to show exactly what the jamb and pockets look like on the car.

rambos_ride

Hudson308 wrote:

Thanks for the additional info, Dan. I have been wondering about the two problems you've brought up... the "verticality" of the hinge pin axis, as well as the opening/closing door issue. I would have investigated placing the hinges in a staggered manner as you've so clearly illustrated. (Great graphics, dude!) That's one way I've seen front (hidden) hinges placed on curved vehicles. And you're right... you've got to place the hinge pins as close to "flush" with the outer door skin as possible. Custom Rodder had an excellent article on this subject sometime last year. I was hoping it was possible to strategically place some rubber bumpers to keep the paint from getting thwacked, because you're right... someone's gonna close the doors in the wrong order. Maybe shaving that lip is a better solution.

With my offset placement I've placed the top hinge pin as close to the quarter panel skin as possible but the lower one is more than 1" away - this is because of the total jamb width is huge on a stepdown and to get it level vertically the bottom pocket has to be placed as far inboard as possible.

Technically the upper pocket could be shortened in width to right-align the pocket assembly but I wanted the extra room for now because I may have to offset the hinge when I make it. If I don't then I will right-align trim the upper pocket and then fill the extra cutout area.

Here's some pictures of my "raw" work...plan...what plan?

Unknown

Looks like you didn't waste much time between the idea/design/plan/execute stages of the project!!! WAY-TO-GO!!!!!!!!!

rambos_ride

hudsondad wrote:

Looks like you didn't waste much time between the idea/design/plan/execute stages of the project!!! WAY-TO-GO!!!!!!!!!

The design/plans/execute stages are all in my head

That was about 2 hours of work last night to get to that point just piddling around taking my time.

I'll tack the pocket assembly in after making the hinge points and then design and build the hinges.

Unfortunately my trucks heater core decided it needs to be replaced so I may have to detour for a while to fixe that.

nick s

heater core? ITS MAY! worry about the heaster core in December. Rambo needs his ride finished and with that fur coat he dosen't care if your truck has heat anyway.
Anyway, as a backseat passenger when a rear suicide door came open on the highway, glad to hear you are already planning measures to be sure they stay latched.

bent metal

If the center point of the hinges are offset, won't they swing on different radius'? I think the center point on the hinges need to be lined up. Otherwise the one hinge will be trying to make an arc close to the body and the other will be pushing the door out farther. NO?

rambos_ride

bent metal wrote:

If the center point of the hinges are offset, won't they swing on different radius'? I think the center point on the hinges need to be lined up. Otherwise the one hinge will be trying to make an arc close to the body and the other will be pushing the door out farther. NO?

The center point of the hinge will be vertically straight - it's just the hinge pockets are offset to compensate for the shape of the body - when I get the hinge pin housings welded on you'll get a better idea.

rambos_ride

nick s wrote:

heater core? ITS MAY! worry about the heaster core in December. Rambo needs his ride finished and with that fur coat he dosen't care if your truck has heat anyway.
Anyway, as a backseat passenger when a rear suicide door came open on the highway, glad to hear you are already planning measures to be sure they stay latched.

I wish - I got 2 vehicles DOA right now - my 89 C30 Step Van quit running on me and my heater core is spewing coolant like a fountain!

I would leave it but the anti-freeze pouring inside the cab of the truck and running out the door jamb is kinda un-healthy for the mutt!

MikeWA

Number 2 son was about 10, and was driving the Ford pickup in the hayfield- he suddenly jumps out, with truck still underway, and yells, "Its on fire, or something!" I jumped in- cab full of steam, which to an 8 year old could be mistaken for smoke. Another heater core bites the dust. He later told me he said "or something" because it didn't smell like smoke, but he had no idea what else it could be.

rambos_ride

Mike (WA) wrote:

Number 2 son was about 10, and was driving the Ford pickup in the hayfield- he suddenly jumps out, with truck still underway, and yells, "Its on fire, or something!" I jumped in- cab full of steam, which to an 8 year old could be mistaken for smoke. Another heater core bites the dust. He later told me he said "or something" because it didn't smell like smoke, but he had no idea what else it could be.

Will Farell in Talledega Nights comes to mind... "I'm on fire, I'm on fire - help me Baby Jesus..."

Sarah Young

There's also the option of wing doors on the front. ;o)~

[Deleted User]

Talledega nights, what a waste of film. Just me I guess but I did not think it was funny.
Bob

rambos_ride

BJ__TN wrote:

Talledega nights, what a waste of film. Just me I guess but I did not think it was funny.
Bob

I'm not particularly NOT a big Will Ferrel fan but I think this is one that can grow on you - if you give it a chance.

It gets my funny bone just because of the ribbing NASCAR gets and the "win-at-all-costs" stereotype of the characters which is not limited to the drivers!

Unknown

Hi Everyone, Im currently working on my 47 ford 2 door coupe installing suicide door hinges. I have made them myself by looking at the other ones available like at rocky hinge. I have installed them on one side and when opening the door it doesnt swing out away from the body enough to full open. Im guessing I need the pivot closer to the quarter am I right?? Like on the car you are speaking of in this thread the bottom hinge is inboard more so that the door will open strait and not at an angle. Any advice from someone who has done this is appreciated. Bob.

rambos_ride

2 things to check

1 - The pivot points aligned vertically on the axis point?
2 - pivot points need to be as close as possible to the quarter top and bottom.

The shape of the hinge can make a difference as well - do you have any pics to post?

mrsbojigger

Bob,
Pics, Pics! We love pics! Thanks for bringing up this thread again.
Dan,
Question: Why is there such a fascination with suicide doors? Is it just the COOL factor? Since I have never owned a car with suicide doors I don't know whats the advantage. Looks that it it would be easier to go in forward rather than backing my butt into the car. Just curious!
Peace,
Chaz

P.S. How is Rambo?

rambos_ride

mrsbojigger wrote:

Bob,
Pics, Pics! We love pics! Thanks for bringing up this thread again.
Dan,
Question: Why is there such a fascination with suicide doors? Is it just the COOL factor? Since I have never owned a car with suicide doors I don't know whats the advantage. Looks that it it would be easier to go in forward rather than backing my butt into the car. Just curious!
Peace,
Chaz

P.S. How is Rambo?

With todays latches and hinges a suicide door - just doesn't live up to it's namesake and reputation which if I remember was gained from the doors popping open at the most inopportune time - like driving down the road, or during a wreck or rollover - no seat belts back then either!

I think the draw today is towards nostalgia as Suicide doors have been around since the inception of hot-rodding, There is a coolness factor and a "travel-outside-the-lines" alure because they've basically been "out-lawed" for production vehicles since what they last Lincolns of the late 60's?

Honestly for me its a pure matter of looks and convenience - with the rear door handle in the suicide position I don't have to walk the 2 extra steps to open the door for Rambo

Now that might make milk shoot from your nose - but think about how many x's you let your dog in and out of your car!

The stepdown is going to require a 1pc hinge for the rear door and right now the 49 is on hold until the 50 gets roadworty - which at my current snails pace will be sometime in 2010! :mad:


BTW - Rambos doing as well as can be expected, he has good days and bad days but overall is acting like his old self for the most part.

MikeWA

mrsbojigger wrote:

Bob,

Question: Why is there such a fascination with suicide doors? Is it just the COOL factor? Since I have never owned a car with suicide doors I don't know whats the advantage.

The advantage is, if you're 5 years old, and just out of curiosity, open the rear door of a '40 Chev while its underway, and you're falling out, the door will automatically swing shut (and save your @$$) when your Mom slams on the brakes. Don't ask me how I know this.



Of course, if it had been a regular door, it wouldn't have swung out in the first place. :rolleyes: