Standard trans out, OD ready to go in, few questions...

Unknown
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Okay, I had a bang up day today...



(this is long, so either be prepared to read the whole saga, or just give up!)



Anyway, me and Hudsondad pour another concrete pad today. He struggled, you know, he's now 60, but I was there to carry him along.... :cool:



All went well there, so we finished, went and got some sandblast sand, and he bought me lunch.



After that, we went on a multi garage search for my original OD trans for my 50. As you all know this has been a hotly debated topic for some time, here and everywhere, but we finally found it!!!!



I got a driveshaft, and even found my linkage and the OD cable.



We also found a box of stainless, and to top it off, when I was digging at home for the 48-49 shop manual, I found some important mapquest directions with some hudson information I was looking for since february.



I went home, and pulled the trans and the clutch (I wasn't gonna pull the clutch, but at the last moment, I had a change of heart....)



The trans is shot, (old straight stick) I had some noise and vibration, and when I undid the driveshaft, I found out why... the nut that holds the yolk on the rear of the trans was no longer on, it was kind of floating around, the yolk was real loose, the rear shaft is real loose, etc... I was lucky.... I can't even re thread the nut back on. it's pretty torn up....



Here's my set of questions!!!



1) my clutch doesn't look terrible, the worst part is the outer row of corks, they are thinner than the inner two rows of corks. Since it is out, I have a boxed NOS 10" disc, does anyone see a problem using a NOS disc?



2) If I use the disc, should I soak it in hudsonite? or should I put it in dry, fill the clutch after the pressure plate is sealed to the flywheel?



3) My pressure plate and flywheel have light scoring, nothing major, I think they look decent, should I leave them, and just make sure my finger height is okay?



4) Before I took off the pressure plate I felt the fingers, while it was torqued to the flywheel, should the fingers have a little play in them? more wiggle than actual movement in the engagement direction. The car ran and shifted good, before I took it apart.



5) trans mount is shot, does anyone know of a temporary cross reference mount, such as later 2 lever trans, or something similar, that might be shelved at the local auto parts stores, ie....NAPA, Autozone, ADvanced????



6) the driveshaft I want to use has missing U joint cups, does anyone have a cross reference for these handy?



7) Seems that we were always told that when you put a new clutch in, you should use two gaskets, I got a in wrapper old gasket, and a Dale Cooper new material gasket, use two, use the old, use the new? any thoughts?



Anyway, I want to get the tranny in, get it running, then work on getting the OD working. I think that I should have a better run at it, since I'm older and wiser, and the Supermatic crap is all gone, although I cam across the lower unit today, and with the upper so handy, don't think I gave it a little thought.... twin H and supermatic would be different....



Thanks in advance for all of the advice to all of those who might give it.



Best!

Hudsonkid.

Comments

  • Oh, Yikes...:eek: I don't known much about those old fangled manual transmissions. But, as for your first and second questions, here's my .02 cents:



    Cork lasts a very long time. Ask anyone who collects fine wines. As such, NOS should be OK.



    Cork is marginally porous but will absorb liquids in time. I'd soak it.



    As far as the remaining questions go, here's my response----> :confused:



    Good luck and have fun. :D
  • mars55
    mars55 Senior Contributor
    Well, the transmission mount from a '64 Oldsmobile Cutlass/F-84 w/ V8 and auto trans will fit. I found a CORTECO MT2215 from Rockauto.



    www.rockauto.com



    For U-joints see this thread.



    http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8516&highlight=u-joint
  • mars55 wrote:
    Well, the transmission mount from a '64 Oldsmobile Cutlass/F-84 w/ V8 and auto trans will fit. I found a CORTECO MT2215 from Rockauto.



    www.rockauto.com



    For U-joints see this thread.



    http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8516&highlight=u-joint



    I'm confused about the Corteco mount you list. It seems the MT2215 comes up as a front engine mount, for 64, and no trans mount is listed for 64.



    If I look up the 64 trans mount under autozone, it shows something that may work. If 65 is the same, we may even have a few of those laying around....



    At least it gets me heading in the right direction!!!
  • mars55
    mars55 Senior Contributor
    If you look at a picture of it. It looks like trans mount. See link.



    http://www.corteco-usa.com/talkpic/viewDetails.asp?partNo=MT2215&AppNo=1655512&PageNo=0



    Also the Louis Backhus Swaps Manual lists the trans mount as a MM2215.
  • RIght now, I'm looking to try the Jeep CJ7 mount, it seems to have the same characteristics as what I'm looking for...



    the t-86 was used in the Jeep, and the later jeep mounts, from the early 70's to the 80's seem to all be real close. If I can get something that is a correct height, correct bolt pattern, i'm in business!



    I'll keep you all posted.
  • hudsonkid wrote:
    Okay, I had a bang up day today...



    Anyway, me and Hudsondad pour another concrete pad today. He struggled, you know, he's now 60, but I was there to carry him along.... :cool: (The truth is Hudsonkid was late and Hudsonmom and Hudsondad had about 3/4 of the concrete in place by the time he arrived!)



    All went well there, so we finished, went and got some sandblast sand, and he bought me lunch.



    After that, we (I actually watched - hudsondad crawled over and between several cars) went on a multi garage search for my original OD trans for my 50. As you all know this has been a hotly debated topic for some time, here and everywhere, but we finally found it!!!! (in a shed under the cement mixer!)



    I got a driveshaft (From Hudsondad), and even found my linkage and the OD cable.



    We (actually Hudsondad) found a box of stainless, and to top it off, when I was digging at home for the 48-49 shop manual, I found some important mapquest directions with some hudson information I was looking for since february

    Hudsonkid.





    This is how it really happened! But I appreciate his help anyway!!!
  • Anyway, the trans is "in" the car, just not bolted to the engine, nor is it mounted. I ran out of steam last night, and couldn't lift it on, and align it. I have been looking for an OD diagram for 50 and up, I need to make a harness, I got all of the connectors, my missing items right now seem to be a bracket to operate the cable for the OD, the relay, and the kickdown.



    I think that if nothing else, I will be able to get the trans in, running, just not the OD working, yet. might need a few more days before I get the wiring sorted out.
  • Park is the man.



    That makes what has been floating around in my head, easier to follow.



    Anyway, trans is in, clutch engages, and disengages, I got a ton of stuff to hookup. I got to make a harness, find the OD relay, kickdown, and the lever the cable hooks to on the trans.



    I'm getting closer. Hope the solenoid is good, the trans looks great, seems nice and tight, and clean.
  • EssexAdv
    EssexAdv Expert Adviser, Member
    HK. Do use the NOS clutch. Soak it before putting in the car. HOWEVER! if you have any roughness on the flywheel or pressure plate DO get that fixed. The plates must be very smooth or the clutch disk will be destroyed. Any GOOD machine shop can fix the Pressure plate and flywheel -if you aren't going to fix the pressure plate, just use the old disk. NO since ruining a NOS disk by using it with a bad pressure plate.

    Using 2 gaskets was an old trick used to compensate for the extra cork on one of the suppliers rebuilds/ With the NOS clutch only use one gasket. Dale's gasket will work just fine.
  • 7XPacemaker
    7XPacemaker Senior Contributor
    My .02 cents worth is this-



    I did away with the original harness stuff and do a single wire system. It works great. Take that NOS clutch and use it as a frisbee. I tried using a NOS clutch disc once and will never do it again! I am not in the habit of doing things twice! The cork compressed and collapsed and I had to pull it back out. If you insist on still using it, lay it on a flat surface to ensure that it is not warped. There are a lot of NOS factory seconds floating around that aren't worth a penny. Is it a solid center or sprung disc? Hopefully Doug will chime in and give you more insight on this...
  • Doug gave me insight a while back on this.



    He said the same thing you did about the NOS disc.



    It turned true, looked good, has the spring center. I did not soak the disc, but put it in dry, used Dale's gasket, sealed it with a tiny bit of Ultra Blue permatex, mainly to hold the gasket in place. as soon as this set up, was dry, I filled the clutch with a charge of hudsonite, and rotated the pressure plate 1/3 turn every half hour or so.



    As far as the flywheel, it has no marks, the pressure plate has two "grooves" that I could catch my fingernail on, but not bad enough. My old clutch was a "bent second" that we straightened, and it ran fine for 1500 miles of hard driving, it sat for ten years with no fluid in it, got it unstuck, made a trip of several miles without fluid, and logged about 1000 miles after that, and it came out looking real good, and it ran fine. This was all on the same flywheel and pressure plate surfaces in the car. I figure it was okay, and left it go.



    I know you guys will be telling told you so, but hey, I had such a good time putting in that heavy %&#% OD trans, I want to o it again someday.



    Anyway, I don't even wanna look at the car for the next couple of days, so, it's gonna sit, and collect some dust. it wore me out. I'll still go out, push the clutch in, spin it a third of a turn or so, let it soak more.
  • Clutchguy
    Clutchguy Senior Contributor
    Well,I have been REAL busy trying to get ready for the National,and haven't spent much time here.I just saw this and I guess I will add my .02cent.The O.E.disc sometimes will work,but not very often,just as Pace7X is describing.As for the pressure plate???,Lew mentioned that ANY competent machine shop could do your flywheel and pressure plate-NO WAY!!!.I have seen my share of flywheels and pressure plates done by people that are "RACERS"or do high performance racing engines.They are good and knowledgable about what they are familiar with,NOT HUDSON clutches.The only proper way to resurface the plate in the P/plate is to disassemble it,cut it,then reassemble and set it up on a fixture that is unique to Hudsons and done by someone who is familiar with Hudson clutches.I'm not trying to discredit anyone here,but if you are knowledgeable about a Hudson wet clutch,and have the proper tools and equipment OK,but if you are not,you should know your boundries.Like I said,I have seen so many just ruined and then installed,with worse results after the supposed rebuild.This is what usually happens when letting someone unfamiliar with how they work do any repairs on Hudson clutches.When taking your clutch to a clutch repair center or someone who does JUST clutches,ask how many Hudson clutches they have done with success.As many here know,Hudson clutches are all by themselves.The flywheel is an issue that many don't really understand either.The Hudson flywheel is a very light and only about a 1/2 in.thick.,and this also has to have extra care when resurfacing.I have found that modern flywheel grinding equipment uses a flat table that the flywheel lays on,and if you are not familiar with this flywheel,your can ruin it also when resurfacing.I have been sent many,many-did I say MANY flywheels that were cut uneven!!!!! The proper way to have the local machine shop cut these are to have an adapter made or one that fits where the flywheel lays on the flange surface where it mates to the crankshaft.Then it can be bolted down and secured correctly to cut.Most machine shops look at the back of the flywheel and see that it is smooth,lay it on the table,bolt it down and start cutting.Since a Hudson flywheel is only about 1/2 thick,it concaves the flywheel when secured tightly,cut,then removed.Now you have a flywheel that is not only warped probably worst than it was before,and now is convex[domed]or you could say doomed to fail,however you look at it!!! These flywheels also need to have an almost mirror finish.These flywheels can be done at the local machine shop,but they need to have a little education before doing it.2 gaskets as mention,well if the pressure plate isn't set up correctly-1.250-1.500 MAX finger height/depth,and the clutch disc with the proper thickness,the chances of having to take it back apart to repair and see what's not working right are alot greater!!! Even though I don't offer this service anymore,Ron Fellows does,and they are going to be familiar with what you are working on VS.the local clutch shop and/or machine shop.It's well worth the wait to do only ONCE VS.over and over and maybe never get it right.Back to work I go,thanks and C Ya soon-DW
  • my flywheel looked good. It was nice and shiny, I guess it had a dirty mirror look to it. Flywheel seemed flat, I could not get a feeler guage under a straight edge, across the clutch surfaces. Like I said, the pressure plate had two light grooves in it, the old disc was not marked up or worn unusual in those areas, so I figured, leaving it alone would be good. My finger height was fine, as well, all measured super close, with the disc in compressed, bolted up, etc.. and even out they were all super close. I would have to assume that the clutch and disc are pretty true if they measured within the same on the pressure plate in and out of the car.



    I'm hoping that this thing will be good, I have confidence. If not, I'll just do it right the second time. RIght now I got a good clutch core, and we'll go from there....
This discussion has been closed.