water jacket 37' T-plane

Unknown

Vehicle was over heating. I removed the water jacket cover. Cover is in good shape. pressure washed the insides of the motor. Insides have rust deposits on cylinder walls. Water flows around both ends and through the middle. Is there a chemical I can use to clean this system out besides high pressure water? Is there something else I can do while I have the cover off?

Unknown

Have you tested the flow through the radiator - I bet you have cores all plugged up.

Unknown

37terraplanes wrote:

Have you tested the flow through the radiator - I bet you have cores all plugged up.

I had the radiator boiled and the tanks repaired last year. There was alot of sludge/chips inside the motor. I sprayed a degreaser inside the motor and let that sit for awhile, then I flushed it out with the pressure washer. I am going to put it back together tonight and see if I have solved the problem. I was just looking for a chemical solution that may clean more of the scales of rust off of the walls.

Jon B

There are mineral cleaning solutions used for water pipes and humidifiers. I wonder if there would be any harm in running some diluted solution through an engine's cooling system?

Huddy42

When you had the radiator cleaned,did they remove the top and bottom tanks???

This needs to be done so the core can be rodded and cleaned, otherwise you are only doing half a job.

Unknown

Huddy42 wrote:

When you had the radiator cleaned,did they remove the top and bottom tanks???

This needs to be done so the core can be rodded and cleaned, otherwise you are only doing half a job.

I'm not sure. Appleton Radiator did some repairs in the tanks and pressure tested the radiator after boiling it. I have a new core. Wondering if it would be more productive to have it mounted to my tanks. I will try a new water pump also if someone knows where I can get one. I put the system back together tonight. She still over heats. I will check compression tommorrow to eliminate the head gasket. I put new valves and a head gasket on a couple of years ago. No water in the oil. There is a four blade fan on it. Thermostat was an option in 37. Boils with or without a thermostat. I've been working on this baby for 3 1/2 years. Being patient and getting advice from Hudson folks is all that has kept me interested.

Jon B

Dave Kostansek sells rebuilt water pumps for Hudsons, $75 exchange. Tel. (440) 994-9173 before 8 PM. Be sure to tell him if it's the regular or 'bypass' style. Have you examined yours? If the vanes are okay and it doesn't squeak and there are no obstructions, and there are no leaks, then it's probably okay.

Club Coupe

Have you checked the radiator cap to make sure it is the correct pressure cap and if so, if it is working properly? Also, don't overlook the upper and lower hoses for collapsing and obstructions. Also check for proper fan belt tension.

Jon B

Another couple thoughts: You said the 'water jacket cover' was in good shape. Does the inside still have the holes punched with different diameters? This is required for good water distribution. Also: are you sure the temp. sender is reporting the correct temperature. Is the water definitely boiling or is that just shown on the heat gauge? If you're not sure, pull the sender and put it in a pan of hot water along with a thermometer so you can compare the actual water temp to what's shown on the dash. Maybe you don't have a problem after all.

Unknown

Jon B wrote:

Another couple thoughts: You said the 'water jacket cover' was in good shape. Does the inside still have the holes punched with different diameters? This is required for good water distribution. Also: are you sure the temp. sender is reporting the correct temperature. Is the water definitely boiling or is that just shown on the heat gauge? If you're not sure, pull the sender and put it in a pan of hot water along with a thermometer so you can compare the actual water temp to what's shown on the dash. Maybe you don't have a problem after all.

The insides look fine. Getting thin, but still should be functional. I was using the term boiling because the water and coolant were coming out the overflow tube and creating steam. I will check to see what the actual temperature is when it comes out of the overflow. I think the pump is fine. I beleive the culprit is that darn radiator. I will probably put a different pump on anyhow and get the radiator core changed. The ovarflow tube is not connected to the radiator cap. How could the cap make a difference. The over flow valve appears to be located in the middle top of the radiator. I'm going to get coffee.

Unknown

Do the hoses require springs inside?

Jon B

Actually, I don't think the system is a 'pressure' system as it is in later cars, so I doubt the cap would make a difference. Did anyone ever flow-test the radiator to check the rate at which water traveled through it? (I don't have any figures on what the rate should be but I think that radiator people know this sort of thing.) I hate to even suggest this because I know what a pain it is to get the grille shell off the car in order to remove the radiator for testing.



By the way, when you get this mess sorted out (there can't be that much left to check, so you must be 90% of the way there!) do re-install the thermostat, its purpose is to restrict the flow of water enough so that it takes its time going through the radiator; thus it is cooled properly. But before doing so, lower the thermostat into a pan of hot water on the stove and make sure it is opening up! They do go bad once in awhile, even new ones.



There are no springs in the hoses -- as far as I know!

SuperDave

Another posibility is that some of those little flakes of rust have become dislodged from inside the block since you had the radiator work done. It's a possible those small pieces are in the top tank blocking flow. I've had this problem numerous times in Model A Ford engines. Simply (Yea right!) take the radiator out and place it upside down and flush clear water through it in reverse. Do it on a driveway or some surface that will allow you to see if anything comes out. Just forcing water in the bottom tank while it is in the car will not work. Good Luck and keep yer cool! grinnnn

Dave W. Fl.

Club Coupe

I sure learn from these boards. I didn't know that the earlier models didn't use a pressure cap. I've made a note of that in my "trying to fix what went wrong" journal. Thanks guys!

[Deleted User]

And if you do remove the radiator for reverse flushing, don't forget to also back flush the block. Cliff Minard.

hudsontech

If, by chance, the water distribution baffle under the pressed steel distribution cover bolted to the left side of the engine has rusted away, even in spots, this will cause problems.



I have directions for fabricating a new baffle if you would like a copy I can email it to you.



Hudsontech

hester_nec@yahoo.com

Unknown

Yes, I would like a copy of the fabrication specs.

Unknown

I've removed the radiator. I will back flush. Thanks for the advice.

Unknown

I removed the radiator will give reverse flushing a shot tonight. Going to take the old radiator and new core to Appleton radiator so they shall be one.

Unknown

I will check the thermostat. I thought I could leave it out as it was an option back in the day. Thanks for the advice.

[Deleted User]

I suspect you are dealing with a cracked head or blown head gasket. Run an overflow tube to a bucket of water and watch when you crank the engine. If you get bubbles in it before you have a heating problem, you have something blown. I assume you have checked for water in the oil and found none, sot if it is a gasket or head, the leak is at an intake or exhaust valve. If you have not seen white smoke out the back, then it points to intake valve area. Hopefully not block related. Have you run a compression check?

Unknown

alexa wrote:

I suspect you are dealing with a cracked head or blown head gasket. Run an overflow tube to a bucket of water and watch when you crank the engine. If you get bubbles in it before you have a heating problem, you have something blown. I assume you have checked for water in the oil and found none, sot if it is a gasket or head, the leak is at an intake or exhaust valve. If you have not seen white smoke out the back, then it points to intake valve area. Hopefully not block related. Have you run a compression check?

I put the radiator back in to try some more diagnostic tricks. I backed flushed the radiator and motor. The vehicle over heated at 20 minutes of running, where as before it only took 10 minutes. I noticed alot of chunks of white deposits on the driveway where I did the flush from the radiator. I felt the radiator in several spots as the vehicle warmed up. The bottom seems alot cooler than the top. The temperature gauge went up to 3/4, then went back to 1/2 after 10 minutes. I checked the compression and all six cylinders are exactly the same pressure. It seems as though the coolant is not circulating fast enough through the system. If you guys have any more ideas, let me know.

Unknown

Todd H - Va wrote:

Sounds like a plugged radiator core to me....it needs to be rodded out.

Thanks. I have a new core that Robby Williams sent me. I will get it put together.

hudsonsplasher1

I had a 37 engine that ran hot even with a new radiator. The problem was the head was full of corrosion holding the heat in before the coolant could make it to the radiatior. I also found that running water with a rust inhibator will run much cooler. In the summer only, then change to antifreez in cold weather.

Unknown

hudsonsplasher1 wrote:

I had a 37 engine that ran hot even with a new radiator. The problem was the head was full of corrosion holding the heat in before the coolant could make it to the radiatior. I also found that running water with a rust inhibator will run much cooler. In the summer only, then change to antifreez in cold weather.

How did you get the corosion out of the head? Is there a chemical solution to use or would I need to pull the head?

hudsonsplasher1

You would have to pull the head. Be sure to clean all of the scale out of the holes that pass from the head to the block. There is no chemical that I know of that you could use. I bought a set of long handled engine cleaning brushes, and knocked out the freeze plugs for better access and just started cleaning. I put in the drive way and kept flushing it with water. A long screw driver will help with removing scale also. NAPA, or any good auto store would have the brushes. It might pay to ask at the auto store or radiator repair shop if there is anything you could use in the way of a chemical.

Unknown

hudsonsplasher1 wrote:

You would have to pull the head. Be sure to clean all of the scale out of the holes that pass from the head to the block. There is no chemical that I know of that you could use. I bought a set of long handled engine cleaning brushes, and knocked out the freeze plugs for better access and just started cleaning. I put in the drive way and kept flushing it with water. A long screw driver will help with removing scale also. NAPA, or any good auto store would have the brushes. It might pay to ask at the auto store or radiator repair shop if there is anything you could use in the way of a chemical.

Thanks, I hope it don't come to that.

Unknown

On Friday, I put the new radiator in. Cool running Terraplane now. Put over 50 miles on with no trouble. The wife said my grin told it all.Thanks to all who had advice. Forum really helps. I sure learned alot about this old car. Now I can finish and drive to some meets.