Same Old Problem

TOM-WA-

Ok my car has been dying on me for months.. I cant hardly drive it for a couple of blocks and it stops completely and will not re-start till it cools off...





The other day I discovered that my heat riser was NOT OPENING at all so I wired it open and took the car for a spin....This time I drove it Much further, Probably about 5 miles till it stalled out on me....



It also re started on me within a few minutes... Have I discovered something here and what is the next step.. The Heat Riser is in full open position..



Thanks

Jon B

Does your heat riser have a thermostatic spring? If not, that could be one of your problems. Also, do you have a series of fiber spacers between the carb and the manifold on which it sits? This will help to keep it cool.

TOM-WA-

Jon..I got both

Unknown

TOM-WA- wrote:

Ok my car has been dying on me for months.. I cant hardly drive it for a couple of blocks and it stops completely and will not re-start till it cools off...





The other day I discovered that my heat riser was NOT OPENING at all so I wired it open and took the car for a spin....This time I drove it Much further, Probably about 5 miles till it stalled out on me....



It also re started on me within a few minutes... Have I discovered something here and what is the next step.. The Heat Riser is in full open position..



Thanks

Have you definitely ruled out all of the the other possible causes that have been suggested e.g. carb needle and seat sticking , fuel pump etc? You must follow them through:)

junkcarfann

Gasoline engines do not run because of 3 reasons:



1. Insufficient or non-existent spark at the proper time.



2. Fuel problems...not enough fuel, too much fuel, or contaminated fuel.



3. Mechanical failure (broken timing chain, thrown rod, etc).



Therefore, next time it fails to run, do the following:



1. Spray a good shot of starting fluid down the throat of the carburetor, and try to restart. (make sure the choke is open). If it starts for a moment, you have a fuel problem.



I do not know if you have an electric fuel pump (properly installed), but given all you've been through lately, I would put one on just for peace of mind once you do get the car running even if that proves to not be the problem.



2. If the starting fluid does not cause it to fire for a moment, check the spark AT THE PLUGS.



To check the spark, disconnect a spark plug wire at the plug, and, using a pair of insulated spark plug removal pliers, hold the plug wire about 1/4" from its plug and have someone crank over the engine with the key on. It should be a nice fat blue spark. If no spark, that is your problem.



3. Broken mechanical parts such as timing chain/gears, etc, are almost certain to not be your problem, unless it is fuel-pump related.

[Deleted User]

Please check the coil [or borrow one] I had a car many years ago that drove me nuts with that very same problem. The coil was the culprit.

Unknown

tom trade it in for a studebaker

TwinH

bill a wrote:

tom trade it in for a studebaker

Thats some funny stuff right there!





Put me down for bad condenser. Runs fine till condenser hits a certain temp

and shorts to ground killing the ignition. Let it cool back down and it will fire

again. The fact that tying open your heat riser let you run a little farther

would seem to support this as the motor would take longer to reach the

same temp. I'd check for spark as soon as it quits.

TOM-WA-

bill a wrote:

tom trade it in for a studebaker

Thanks Bill.....I know I can Always count on you for help and support whenever I need it....



Maybe I can just hire a full time mechanic to work for me?

37 CTS

Suggest looking at small wires to coil as I had those break down and fail when engine was warm.

Unknown

Also check the primary wire inside the dist. It runs from the outside terminal to the points under the breaker plate for bare spots. I realize not all Hudson distributors had it but if yours does check it. Had a 49 merc once that drove me nuts for a week trying to find the problem.

faustmb

41 hud wrote:

Please check the coil [or borrow one] I had a car many years ago that drove me nuts with that very same problem. The coil was the culprit.

I've had exactly the same problem with an ignition coil. I usually carry a know working spare since it is also a quick thing to exchange for troubleshooting.



Matt

[Deleted User]

Had a similar problem with a 56 Caddy, turned out it was a little slice of rubber in a fuel hose that would catch in the fuel flow and flip down like a one way valve, eventually the pressure holding it would drain away and the flap would go back up and let the fuel flow, while it seemed like a heat problem it wasn't related to heat at all, the worse thing is I had the offending hose off once while checking the fuel lines for obstructions, but I blew through it from the wrong direction so the flap didn't come down, months later I took it off again and this time when I blew into the hose it stopped flowing, since the hose was only about 6 inches I could see the obstruction, I had to split the hose though to see the mechanics of it though, once replaced no more problems.

Harry

[Deleted User]

Tom

Have you checked to see if your gas line is near your exhaust pipe or manifold at ANY point? Near being anything closer than two or three inches. Many years ago I had a 36 Pontiac that did that and it turned out to be a cracked heat riser tube. It would open up and let the exhaust gas into the intae manifold.

Jon B

Hi, Tom. I know this must be terribly frustrating for you and it is for us too (we'd like to see you back on the road!)



People have been making all kinds of suggestions. One thing you might do, is to go back through your several threads on this subject, and collect all the ideas. Then list the ideas that you have definitely, thoroughly checked out, and the ones that you have not get gotten to. And post these two lists here in this thread.



That way, we may be able to 'zero in' on what the problem is, by process of elimination. Right now, a lot of suggestions are being added to the pot (so to speak) and we have no idea what you have tried, so we just keep tossing out more random ideas! The way to approach this systematically and diagnose the problem, would be to see what you've tried, and what's left to try, so we all don't keep flailing around.



One last thought: whenever I have come to a complete standstill on my Hudson, I've simply thrown in the towel and taken it to a good mechanic. They have always been successful. There is always SOMEONE who can deal with this, though he might be known as dealing only with vintage Chevvies, Fords or Packards. Have you tried talking to some of your fellow chapter members or even non-Hudson antique car owners, about where they take THEIR cars?

Unknown

Jon B wrote:

Hi, Tom. I know this must be terribly frustrating for you and it is for us too (we'd like to see you back on the road!)



People have been making all kinds of suggestions. One thing you might do, is to go back through your several threads on this subject, and collect all the ideas. Then list the ideas that you have definitely, thoroughly checked out, and the ones that you have not get gotten to. And post these two lists here in this thread.



That way, we may be able to 'zero in' on what the problem is, by process of elimination. Right now, a lot of suggestions are being added to the pot (so to speak) and we have no idea what you have tried, so we just keep tossing out more random ideas! The way to approach this systematically and diagnose the problem, would be to see what you've tried, and what's left to try, so we all don't keep flailing around.



One last thought: whenever I have come to a complete standstill on my Hudson, I've simply thrown in the towel and taken it to a good mechanic. They have always been successful. There is always SOMEONE who can deal with this, though he might be known as dealing only with vintage Chevvies, Fords or Packards. Have you tried talking to some of your fellow chapter members or even non-Hudson antique car owners, about where they take THEIR cars?

I second that.

Jay_G

I had this happen last week when I tried to take my freshly restored 53 to get a tank of gas for the first time in 23 years. The car would idle fine in the drive way and even go up and down the block but would die when it got warm. I thought it was I did not have enough gas in the tank. So I put in a gal of gas and no help. When it was cool it would start, run for a while then die. What turned out to be the problem was the brass fitting at the outlet of the fuel tank is sodered onto the metal pickup tube. The joint had cracked just enough to let air into the line. When the cool the crack was small enough to let enough gas flow to keep the engine running. When hot the crack would open up and allow enough air to enter that the engine would starve and quit. I discovered this by filling up the tank (on the back of the flat bed, I did not make it to the gas station before it quit) and the gas dripping from the back of the fitting. Some JB weld later the crack sealed and it runs like a champ. OK this sounds strange but it is true as I have not had any problems with it stalling on me ever since. Granted it has only been one week.



Jay

J Spencer

Jay G wrote:

I had this happen last week when I tried to take my freshly restored 53 to get a tank of gas for the first time in 23 years. The car would idle fine in the drive way and even go up and down the block but would die when it got warm. I thought it was I did not have enough gas in the tank. So I put in a gal of gas and no help. When it was cool it would start, run for a while then die. What turned out to be the problem was the brass fitting at the outlet of the fuel tank is sodered onto the metal pickup tube. The joint had cracked just enough to let air into the line. When the cool the crack was small enough to let enough gas flow to keep the engine running. When hot the crack would open up and allow enough air to enter that the engine would starve and quit. I discovered this by filling up the tank (on the back of the flat bed, I did not make it to the gas station before it quit) and the gas dripping from the back of the fitting. Some JB weld later the crack sealed and it runs like a champ. OK this sounds strange but it is true as I have not had any problems with it stalling on me ever since. Granted it has only been one week.



Jay

Also, if it hasn't been mentioned if the fuel line is old and looks rusty check along the fuel line, especially at the highest point of the line to see if it may have some pin holes that will allow air to be drawn into the fuel line and stop the fuel flow. Years ago while working in an auto shop we had an Olds with same symptons. After trying many things this is what it turned out to be. No apparent fuel leaks were noticed because when it quit - even in the shop- because the fuel would drain to the lowest point of the line. I think we finally discovered it when the car was running and I was under it with a light and barely noticed some dampness at the highest poin of the line.



As was mentioned when it dies have you detrmined if it is fuel or spark? Have you had some gas with you and poured some down the carb? If it is a lack of fuel the car should restart or at least try to fire for a moment.



What Jay said is a valid possibility also. I have seen brake hoses that have deteriorated on the inside and either not allowed fluid to reach the brake cylinders or keep them on by not allowing the fluid to return. Acts like a one way valve. On brakes can also lead to brakes pulling one way when all else seems to be in order.



Good Luck, keepus Posted



Jim

TOM-WA-

Ok folks I think I solved the problem...



After literally weeks and weeks of trying every suggestion that was proposed here..Yes I investigated coil, condensor and the distributor and found them to check out ok...Led me back to it being a fuel related issue.



I decided that perhaps my Original Fuel pump was not working properly so I purchased a New Rebuilt pump and installed it...Much to my dismay the car ran worse...So put the old fuel pump back on and was still having the same stalling problem....I was stumped....





Well I was looking around one night and even tho I was able to operate my Heat Riser by hand (it was free) I noticed that the spring that operates it just didnt look right...After a few tests I found out that the Heat Riser spring was not working correctly..It would remain in the closed position always thus keeping a steady flow of HOT air to the Carb......This hot air would super heat the carb and vaporize the fuel....This coupled with a faulty fuel pump turned out to be the problem.





So I have temporarily wired the Heat Riser open and INSTALLED a 3rd and final Rebuilt Fuel Pump........Problem solved..Took the car out for about a 40 mile test run on freeways and surface streets and it ran just great!!!!!

Unknown

Congratultions Tom, I knew you'd eventually find it. Unless you drive the car in the winter I don't think you even need a heat riser valve so wire it open permanently if need be.