value of my essex coupe?

Unknown

whats a good way to come up with the value of my 31 essex coupe? i have tried some online book value type of sites and they only show a max of about 13,000 totally restored. does that sound right to any of you? to me it sounds low considering if you restore it top to bottom you will probably have close to double that into it. everyone tells me not to hotrod it becasue it is such a rare valueable car. rare yes, valuable? i dont know about that one. im starting to consider selling it to some one that would enjoy it stock as its really not my cup of tea in stock form. it is very complete, runs and drivesn and looks pretty good, not perfect, os i could see why people would tell me not to hotrod it, but it sure is a nice platform instead of some rot box that is missing everything.

[Deleted User]

Do what makes you happy man. Don't feel forced to hot rodding a rust bucket. There will always be restored cars, so don't worry about that. You've got to ask yourself, how much will someone pay me, and will those dollars get me another car in as good a shape with cash for a modern driveline? My guess is, it wouldn't bring enough money. You could sell off the drivetrain and other unneccesary parts which might go some ways towards getting the hot rod parts you want, without having to spend too much money trying to weld together a rusted POS into a useable platform. Just food for thought.

mars55

jsrail wrote:

There will always be restored cars, so don't worry about that.

This is not true!!! Every year Hudsons are hot rodded and since the the supply of Hudsons is very limited Hudsons can and will go extinct. This does happen, a classic car magazine did an article on '64-'67 Chevy El Camino pickups and the article had only one factory black and white photo of a '67. People wrote in to complain about the lack of photos of '67s. The magazine explanation for this was that they could not find one stock '67 to photograph.

If this could happen to Chevy El Caminos which had production numbers that Hudson could only dream about, how long would it be before Hudsons are gone?

7XPacemaker

This is an interesting thread. I have been watching old Hudsons and Essex prices in the WTN classifieds lately. You can get a fairly nice car for around 9K. Now, in all fairness they have been sedans. These old original cars don't seem to bring the money that a comparable condition stepdown would. This is my thought- It's not a Hudson thing, its an age thing. These old original cars are not sought after because the demand has gone away for these original cars. I bet that when people take their 20's and 30s' original cars out, nobody comes up to them and says " I remember buying one of those new!". Stepdowns are going to go the same way eventually. The demand goes away. In the end, you have to do what's right for you. I understand what you are saying, as I have a '32 Essex. Hand me an oar- I am in the same boat as you.........

Unknown

I agree with JS, do whats right for you. Most common Pre 48 cars are worth more as rods than restored, and a lot more fun to drive. Why start with a rusted out POS.



I'd like to see a vintage street rod sometime (preferably a hudson product) with a hornet or straight eight with the Edmunds finned head and dual manifold and headers all dressed up. Maybe add a B&M Hydrostick.

[Deleted User]

mars55 wrote:

This is not true!!! Every year Hudsons are hot rodded and since the the supply of Hudsons is very limited Hudsons can and will go extinct. This does happen, a classic car magazine did an article on '64-'67 Chevy El Camino pickups and the article had only one factory black and white photo of a '67. People wrote in to complain about the lack of photos of '67s. The magazine explanation for this was that they could not find one stock '67 to photograph.
If this could happen to Chevy El Caminos which had production numbers that Hudson could only dream about, how long would it be before Hudsons are gone?

I don't think so man. Or the Club isn't doing its job. Look at the pics of Hudson meets, there are far more stock Hudsons than rodded ones. Far more Purists in the Club than Rodders. There are many of the early Hudsons I see, and most of them are stock. As long as there is a museum or showroom that has at least one of each year and model in stock form, doesn't that preserve them? Rodding has always been one way that a car survives, albeit not pure form, but it still survives. How many of these would be rotting in barns and fields waiting for someone to restore them, when a rodder would love to have something a little different than the norm and put it back on the road. I believe if it wasn't for rodders, most of the old tin would have been crushed or rotted years ago. Some folks love the looks of the early tin, just don't won't to drive around on wooden spoked wheels at 40mph, or have to trailer it everywhere.

And when did Hudson guys give a darn what happens to a Chevy! LOL :-)

Jay

[Deleted User]

hudsondad wrote:

I agree with JS, do whats right for you. Most common Pre 48 cars are worth more as rods than restored, and a lot more fun to drive. Why start with a rusted out POS.

I'd like to see a vintage street rod sometime (preferably a hudson product) with a hornet or straight eight with the Edmunds finned head and dual manifold and headers all dressed up. Maybe add a B&M Hydrostick.

Now this is a way to help rodders preserve some of the old tin mystique, getting someone to build hi-pro parts for the motors. You know, flathead Fords are really big nowadays in street rods and rat rods because you can get many high performance parts and dress up parts. Original motors are big in the rod scene these days, not beating the SBC, but alot of interest out there. It seems that the few high performance stuff for Hudsons are pretty scarce. Lets try hard to get some of this stuff to reproduce, even asking club members to kick in a little cash to cover some some pre-production costs. Hudson Dad's got a good point, and I'll bet there would be some rodders out there that would love to put a 232 or 262 (not just 308's) in a roadster or any of the old tin. Not everyone has the cash to put $7-8K for a 7X motor.

faustmb

I think that if rodding the car to some level will make it the car you want (or think you want), then you should start heading down that path.



If the car isn't really your style, and rodding it is just a means to prolong your ownership it might make more sense to part with it and chase something else that is closer to what you want.



No one can argue that the supply of original cars is dimishing, but so is the demand (hence your 13K value). I can appreciate them either way, but most people can't. People have customized cars that are more rare and valuable than yours, if that's what you want to do I wouldn't lose sleep over it.



Matt

tigermoth

my two cents..the car has survived over 70 years, we're just care takers of these cars, it seems a shame to cut an artifact. as far as recovering your investment after rodding..perhaps you will, but there are a lot of "40,000 invested asking 30,000" ads. all that being said..with $100 a barrel oil and alternative fuels on the horizon, will there be gas for our cars, if so, how long and at what price? i just heard on the radio yesterday there are oil futures contracts being taken at $250 a barrel. Yikes! regards, tom

tigermoth

i guess your question was... how do i come up with a value for my car?...the value is what ever someone will pay for it..regardless of what all the price guides say. regards, tom

essexcoupe3131

Hey James, Go with your heart and if you need a rod and you really want it to be a Essex go for it, like Tom says there are a lot of people who have spent lots on getting what they want and cannot get it back and I have to admit I am 1 of those people, I started with a POS but it had lots of possibilities, if you are going to hold onto it long term cost doesnt really come into it, if you look what things cost 10 -20 years ago and what they are asking now, I know in my own country that the cost to build a good to top rod and have it certified for the street you can be looking from 50k -150k , I recently saw a 41 ford and the guy had spent 1/4 of a million $ on it (thats Mad) , when I had my 57 Chev 20 years ago I sold it here for 12k an 7-8 , my younger brother (43 ) has always wanted 1 from me taking him to the hot rod shows and he has had some of the most well known rodders here in Auckland looking for him and he had to pay 35k for a 4 door 57 chev on the road and on a scale of 1-10 I would give it a 5-6

Go for the long term or your better off finding something else

My Thoughts Mike

Unknown

i just dont understand with how few are left it really isnt worth that much, take something way more desireable like a 32 anything and its worth almost double. i bought it becasue it was clean, solid, and complete, i really liked the fact that it had a big heavy frame and almost no wood. i bought it not running and think i kind of paind a little too much for a non runnin car, but i really didnt invest much into it to get it on the road, mostly time. i bought it thinking if there is really some reason i cant get it running and road worthy, well ill just hotrod it. now that i drove it around all summer i figured out most of the things i dont like about it, the mechanical brakes leave plenty of room for improvement, the drivetrain leaves a lot to be desired, it sucks to be screaming along on the highway in the right lane, its pretty lousy on fuel for as slow as it is, and im really not a fan of the wooden rims. i dont want to do a street rod, i want to do a vintage hotrod, which im sure there were very few essex hotrods back in the 40s 50s and 60s. id like to do it all period correct but if i find it to be easier to run disc brakes i will, im going to certain things im not going to go crazy trying to keep a vintage theme. i was thinking of a flathead ford for power, but i bought this car because i wanted anything but a ford. plus the flatheads seem to cost a lot to rebuild and hotrod, and you get a lot less power out of them. id go with the later hudson strait 6 but they seem to be kind of huge and heavy, i cant find one anywhere local, and id have to cut out the firewall, which i kind of dont want to do, so that kind of eliminates any straight 6 or 8. id really like to do a buick nailhead, that was probably #1 on my list from when i first started looking for an old car. im just not sure about the distributor in the back, might have to cut the firewall. im definitely not going with a chevy v-8. my last resort will be a small block ford. right now it really looks like im going to do a buick 215 based rover aluminum v-8 with 2x2s, a t-5 trans and a mopar 8 3/4 rear. i want to build it as a driver with about 250hp, that i can drive anywhere. probably do black steel wheels with a set of firestone bias ply tires, little smaller on the front. i dont really care about gas mileage, if theres no gas one day and i still have it ill worry about it then, maybe ill convert it to electric at that time. the only way i could see myself selling it is if some one paid me enough to buy something else and hotrod that, i dont see myself getting rid of it. my 69 dart ive had for 10 years. built it all, street raced it, wised up to that and drag raced it and drove it all over the place. probably pushing about 500hp and gets about the same fuel mileage as the essex. as reliable as any new car.

Jay_G

Again it come down to doing what you feel is right. I purchased a 46 truck with the thought of repowering it with something else but it was so original I had a hard time with that thought. So I put in an overdrive so I could go down the freeway without much difficulty. It is still a workout to drive but I really enjoy the looks I get when I haul all kinds of stuff in it and I open up the engine compartment and it is the old straight six. People just can’t believe it does what it does and you know it starts every time. So I guess I will keep it original for now but I went to the SEMA show in Vegas last week and you know some of the new diesel engines are the same size as the 308. I could be really tempted to put one in. Dual turbos, would that kick butt or what?



Jay

Jon B

Regarding your original question at the start of this thread: what is a good way to come up with the value, because "im starting to consider selling it to some one that would enjoy it stock." I could offer a couple of suggestions:



One would be to offer it on Ebay with a "reserve" level that you are comfortable with (after considering your outlays so far). If you're not sure you want to sell the car, then add some more to that reserve. Then, let 'er rip, and see what you're offered for it (by antique lovers, street rodders....whoever wants to bid). If the bidding doesn't reach the magic number by the auction's end, you can either keep it (rod it, restore, or whatever), or -- if the highest offer was fairly tempting -- re-list it with a lower reserve and hope that the high bidder from the first auction, comes back again.



Or, you can devise a price and list it in the classified ad section of the White Triangle News, where it will be seen by MANY more Hudson enthusiasts than read this forum. You could also add 'or best offer' and see what sort of offers you get (maybe they come remarkably close to what you desire....maybe nowhere near). If you're not in the Hudson club, a current member (like myself) will get it listed for you, at no charge.



In these two ways, you are in fact asking for more than it may be worth, but waiting to see exactly how much folks will actually pony up for it. With something as rare as a '31 Essex, this is probably the best way to ascertain value. The "value guides" are notoriously "off" in the case of cars for which the rarity of sales make a "standardized" value impossible to devise.

Unknown

"In these two ways, you are in fact asking for more than it may be worth, but waiting to see exactly how much folks will actually pony up for it. With something as rare as a '31 Essex, this is probably the best way to ascertain value. The "value guides" are notoriously "off" in the case of cars for which the rarity of sales make a "standardized" value impossible to devise."



im not trying to be greedy, but i wanted some reasurance, i was thinking the guides were off and really how could they be accurated when there probably isnt another essex coupe in my state especially the same year. i dont have much experience with old car values especially something so rare. i did see a 31 way nicer than mine for sale online once it was in the mid 20s i dont know if they ever sold it or if they actually got that for it. otherwise i havent seen another 30-31. really to me these cars being so far and few between seem like its more what some one is willing to pay rather than an actual value.

Unknown

Pardonme, but I always thot the idea of having an old car was to enjoy it as the original owners did, that is to drive it as it was new and to experience it's good features as well as it's not so good features, to experience motoring as it was at the time when the car was new! If you want a modern drive train the by all means go and buy a modern car.

[Deleted User]

Steve E. wrote:

Pardonme, but I always thot the idea of having an old car was to enjoy it as the original owners did, that is to drive it as it was new and to experience it's good features as well as it's not so good features, to experience motoring as it was at the time when the car was new! If you want a modern drive train the by all means go and buy a modern car.

I guess you've never heard of the hot rod scene, been around since the 40's? lol

Browniepetersen

Value of a car is a "Best Guess" most of the time. I do appraisals in my local area as a business/hobby. I start with a look at Old Cars price guide to get a base to start from. They list cars from 1 to 5 condition. Their price is based of market value so with some cars that do not move very often their price is a WAG (Wild A// Guess.) If the car is original, I review the condition much like if the car was in a "real" car show where they have class and point judging. Trophy cars bring higher than nice cars that finish second place. Next I review the market action on a type of car to see if I can establish a percent above or below market value that they are selling for, and then I consider the quality of work completed if it is a restoration. I suggest to people that they do these things before they buy for the purpose of restoring a car. Then try not to put more money into the car than its market value will support. Bottom line, I would like to sell all the cars I build for more than I have in restoring them. This does not always happen and therefore I still have nice cars to drive. If I am looking at a car that has been restored (i.e. 1952 Hornet Hollywood coupe the top price in Old Cars Weekly is $26,000. We all know that when a well restored loaded 52 Hornet Hollywood hits eBay it will go somewhere between 30 and 45 thou. The point here is that these cars are currently selling well above market for a number of reasons. That is why this is a WAG. For insurance value the 52 mentioned above would appraise for 50K so that the owner would recoupe his investment. The value of a hot rod to me is based on what is in the car and how well was the work done. If it is high quality and with the right custom/brand name or updated engineering it would draw as much or more as an original. With the 52's as mentioned above, I have never seen one meet original price. With a coupe like yours, well built and roadworthy I would expect that you could sell it for more than its restored value. But then again you could go out and buy a new sporty car for the same money and not have the fun of driving an original car. This would be only a guess because bottom line, this is a hobby where supply and demand set market value and if you have a buyer that is motivated you have a top value sale. My advice is to do with your car what you feel best meets the goals you have for the car. Try to do as much as you can yourself with the idea that you plan to pass this car down to your kids. If you have to sell it... you will get what the market bears? I do know that most normal cars, and particularlly the Hudsons are a better buy finished than a build project. There are a lot of nice cars out there at reasonable prices if you stay away from the high end cars and when you realize that driving a 4 door is just as much fun as a coupe and your friends and family can ride in comfort....

Just my opinion.

Brownie

mars55

hudsondad wrote: »

I agree with JS, do whats right for you. Most common Pre 48 cars are worth more as rods than restored, and a lot more fun to drive. Why start with a rusted out POS.



Hot Rods are not worth more then a restored car. In fact they are worth much less. If this Essex is worth $9000 now, after being modified it would be worth around $9000. I know because I have been monitoring sales of hot rod Hudsons and so far they been going for under $10,000. The exception is if they get in Barrett-Jackson then all bets are off.



If you mean more fun to drive is going fast, then a modern fast car is more fun to drive then a hot rod because it's faster, handles better and is more comfortable.

Unknown

mars55 wrote:

hudsondad wrote: »

I agree with JS, do whats right for you. Most common Pre 48 cars are worth more as rods than restored, and a lot more fun to drive. Why start with a rusted out POS.



Hot Rods are not worth more then a restored car. In fact they are worth much less. If this Essex is worth $9000 now, after being modified it would be worth around $9000. I know because I have been monitoring sales of hot rod Hudsons and so far they been going for under $10,000. The exception is if they get in Barrett-Jackson then all bets are off.



If you mean more fun to drive is going fast, then a modern fast car is more fun to drive then a hot rod because it's faster, handles better and is more comfortable.

MARS55, I doubt if you've really been doing a good job monitoring the rod market. Common cars from the 30's and 40's are for the most part a very soft market, while these fat fendered rods are still hot. Don't let your Purist instincts blind you from realitiy. That's one of the reasons to start with a decent car to rod rather than a rusted out hulk. "Worth Much Less"??? BS!

MikeWA

Gotta go along with hudsondad on that one- except for the rare models, which will always go for big $$ primarily as an investment (Don't see a lot of guys driving their J model Dusenbergs around, except Leno!). I have a '28 Model A coupe, stock, that I bought about 30 years ago, just as the market peaked. Its an older resto, still fairly presentable, but has been driven enough to take the luster off. Was thinking about selling, and a buddy who knows the market told me, "Get it running good, take it to a swap meet, put $8,000 on it, and you'll sell it, probably to a hot rodder- they'll pay that money because its all steel (still a braggin' point among rodders), and they won't have to spend money on body work on a rust bucket, that would get them up to that price (or more) anyhow, and they still wouldn't have as nice a car. Chances are they will want you to keep the running gear and give them a discount, but you need it running because a running car is worth more, and there's always the off chance a restorer guy will come along."

Unknown

I am building my 28 Essex coupe into a period hot rod. I am running a vintage chrysler hemi. I have gone with dropped axle and four link rear with a 9 inch ford. All the usual hot rod stuff, red wheels, wide whites and full fenders etc. My car was appraised at just around 10,000 dollars in its stock form. I have seen a few rodded Essexes go for 20 - 30,000 dollars and up. Just google Essex street rod and you will find a few examples for sale and sold ones too. They are a perfect candidate for a hot rod, and why not start with a good example of one, why do hot rodders have to start with a rusted POS. You will find a great variance in the opinions on this page as alot of members are purists who do not believe in anything but stock. My car is a member of the family since 1966. I live in the northern parts of Canada and need to travel a fair distance to meets etc. A stock Essex is just plain slower and less comfortable to travel any long distance in. It just kills me to leave this part of my family sit and not be driven so I figured when she was modified and built for comfort, higher cruising speeds and reliability it would be used more. I have very rarely seen an Essex at a rod meet and am looking forward to havin her shown around a bit. Everybody in the rod club things the car is just plain cool. I would not hesitate one bit to do the rod thing. If you need any advice on what I had to do to mine to make engines fit etc. I would be happy to help.

cheers

Steve

[Deleted User]

Ah yes, the old keep it stock or Hot Rod it debate.



They made a bazzilion Model A's so there are lot's of nice stock ones. Why not hot rod? Still, who wouldn't (besides Jay) hate to see a nice 70 year old survivor get butchered?

Hot Rod a Hudson Italia? That's just plain ignorant. Hot Rod a stepdown- sure. Better than the scrap yard and better exposure for the marque.



Small block Chevy's, boring. A freshly built 308 is no sloutch and offers alot more interesting conversations and nostalgia.



Values? The brass era cars are starting to gain again. However, in general, the age demographics of the buying public affects the car values. Those who grew up in the brass era are all dead. No more nostalgia buying. Muscle cars got hot because of all the baby boomers who grew up with them can now afford them. As mentioned in previous threads, common cars regardless of age get typical common money. Popular cars get better money. 57 Chevy's- nice but who even looks at one anymore? You can buy a new fiberglass one and wow all your buddies.

Hudson stepdown's have NEVER been in a hotter market. As many here already know, you can thank the movie "Cars" for much of the new found interest.

mars55

hudsondad wrote:

mars55 wrote: »

MARS55, I doubt if you've really been doing a good job monitoring the rod market. Common cars from the 30's and 40's are for the most part a very soft market, while these fat fendered rods are still hot. Don't let your Purist instincts blind you from realitiy. That's one of the reasons to start with a decent car to rod rather than a rusted out hulk. "Worth Much Less"??? BS!

I stand corrected. A hot rodded Essex is worth $10,000. See ad.



http://maine.craigslist.org/car/448675858.html

Unknown

mars55 wrote:

hudsondad wrote: »

I stand corrected. A hot rodded Essex is worth $10,000. See ad.



http://maine.craigslist.org/car/448675858.html

i hate to insult the work that some one has put into something, but you wouldnt catch me driving that thing and i think you are way off base calling it a hotrod. its more like a wanna be t bucket fro mthe 70s. then again i can guarantee people will not like what i want to do to mine so take it for what its worth.



HEMIESSEX i tried contacting you before, i think your car is awsome. id really liek to see more pics of your car and any info you have.

Unknown

Is that a nice original coupe? If so, it is worth maybe $5000. Drive it and enjoy it. It will only be original once. Of course, you could "rod" it. Who's to stop you? Maybe drop a 426 Hemi into it. Maybe a 454 Chevy would be nice. Of course the frame won't take the tourque and you probably won't finish the project anyway. But what the hey, who cares? it is your car, do with it as you please. The rod fad has gone the way of the albino holsteins. No one is paying much for someone else's fantasty ride these days. That little anomoly in the market didn't last long. In the end, the original, untouched, unmolested cars will be the only ones of any historical and monetary value.

Have a nice day

Steve

Jim Kilday

"In the end, the original, untouched, unmolested cars will be the only ones of any historical and monetary value."



I've been collecting guns and rifles for 50 years and could not agree more with "smcmanus" quote above. If you alter a Smith, Colt or Winchester in any way, you often halve its value and the purist collector won't give it a second look.



Over time originality is the keystone of value in the gun business and I have always believed it to be the same with cars.



I think everyone should do what they want with their car and their money but, at the end of the day a strictly original car in pristine condition--restored or original--is going to appreciate the most and attract the most collector interest.



Jim Kilday

Unknown

well, its not totally original, it was repainted in the 70s, looks great from 10' away. has its share of chips and scratches that come with use. the interior was also redone around the same time and is perfect, just missing floor covering. new tires, new exhaust, freshly relined clutch. runs and drives. not the original engine, but i have the original one in my basement, a spare trans and a few other spare parts. i think its worth more than 5,000 and if im wrong thats all the more reason to hotrod it, 5 grand is penuts for a car this nice, so if i hotrod it i certainly cant make it worth any less than 5 grand. from what ive been reading there are far less 30-31 essex coupes than the early ones left. we'll see what parts i find over the next few months.