Thinking of buying a 54 Hornet Coupe~ Advice...

Unknown

Okay, Me and dad looked at a 54 hornet coupe tonight. Here's the details:



54 Hudson Hornet Coupe

mint/light/pale green color

93,000 miles

original motor

3 speed/overdrive

new clutch/pressure plate/throwout bearing

"rebuilt engine" (not sure about this one...)

"said to have been bored 40 over and valve job, new bearings"

twin H

brakes done

runs and drives

perimeter is solid, front driver's floor as been patched

all there, complete, side stainless is there, needs some straightening, worst piece might be the rear 54 2 door only spear



rust above the skirt, and behind, both left and right sides as well as light amount behind in the perimeter area



both right and left sides, there are minimal areas behind each door where there is minor (and we have looked at a lot of hudsons over the years) frame spots where it is tiny bit soft, nothin you would reall ybother to do much with, unless you were going for AACA senior, or something. I would prefer a real nice 3 or maybe a lower 2 driver... anyway.



Needs taillight lenses and bezels (better chrome)

headlight rings (better chrome)

bumpers fair

side quarter mouldings (gravel panels, they are plated? I thought they were all stainless, but I also think 4 door is the same....)



Interior is nice, door panels need some light work, driver's arm rest is the worst, seats have wear spots on the area where you would push them back to get in the back.



headliner is good, dash is good



needs shocks, rear pinion seal (real leaky)



tires...



runs and drives well



Oh yeah, needs rockers, both sides, under the doors, and the front under the fenders, and paint! might be original paint



Price was $7200



If I can figure out how to put pics up, I will.



I am thinking of buying this car



would like some advice... Please!



Here is what I would like to know...

Is there a source for the rockers? or the quarters above the skirts?

all of the rest I kind of know, ex taillights for K-gap... etc...



my other thoughts...

and i likely will never find the 2 door long stainless (my dad has a 52 Hornet coupe, and told me good luck...)

The 54 gravel shield 4 pieces are fairly common... I think....



I would be more comfortable with 5500-6000 but I think the price is a bit firm... considering, book is probably $4000~ for a 4 and $9000 for a 3.



Car needs paint, and it runs and drives well.

Jon B

Two or three thoughts:



1). As you may know by now, it's that frame rust (from the rear wheels back) that can be the killer, so check that area very carefully. If the frame needs work, you can possibly use that as a way to get the price down -- but be darned sure you have some welding abilities!



2). If you've been watching Ebay lately you'll know that $7200 is no longer a high price for a decent Hudson. That said, it's not a 'steal' either. Am I correct in assuming you've been combing the ads in Hemmings, Old Cars Weekly and the WTN? Don't jump at the first thing that comes along. (Sounds like you've been doing your homework, though...)



3). A place called Green Mountain Auto Parts makes repro rockers for StepDowns but I'm not sure about the '54's. Also, the exact 'fit' and 'look' is a matter of debate (some say the company doesn't get the double curvature right, while others say they do).



4). It might be that some Hudsonite would be happy to look at the car and give you an opinion; in what part of the world are you located? If folks know that, maybe some public-spirited person may offer his time and expertise. (The downside is, that he'd buy it out from under you...but most Hudson guys I've met, don't stoop that low!!)

Unknown

I guess to make this easy... the car would be a by definition number 4 in old cars price guide. It needs paint and the above mentined things. It drives nice and seems to have ample power/performance (wow, I didn't know that a hornet runs that much better than a lowly 262.... I was impressed)



Basically, what it comes down to is this....



I need/want a stepdown coupe in the worst way.... I would like a short wheelbase wasp/superwasp/pacemaker but after driving the hornet, Man, I kinda think it is what I really want.



I also have been watching eBay. seriously, what might push me over the edge is that a 52 hornet 4 door, while super nice and original, just went for 28000. This further puts it into perspective. Hudsons have been hot lately. And IMHO maybe 7200 is not that far out of line.



I am considering it, and might make an offer around 6200-6500 and see where we are at. I heard that several peopl;e have looked at it in the last 7 months, and the best offer was 6000.



I would love to get an unbiased hudson person look at it, but I think me and pops looked at enough, over the years, the rust issues and all, we have seen it all. I would be afraid that someone might end up with it, other than myself, not saying anyone in the hudson club is as such, but hey, we're all instinctive creatures...



I guess my biggest fear is that i know I am paying more than what would commonly be referred to as "book" yet I am paying what is correct for the actual "market"



Oh well, time will tell, I'll give it a few days...



And ultimately, I think I might consider paying 7200 in the end



Did I say how bad I want a coupe?



Thanks for the advice/post. I will givve green mountain a call today

Unknown

I got a set of nice NOS rockers from Ken Amman. Not sure if he has anymore, but if you get the car I would call him. The skirts are easy to come by, on either bBay or a good Hudson swap meet.

Club Coupe

I agree with Jon 100%. I have found, over the course of fooling with cars for close to 40 years that it isn't always what you pay for the car, it's what you end up having in it. It is, in my humble opinion, less expensive to buy a car that has been restored rather than buying a restoration project. A friend of mine is doing a '54 coupe and needed a rear quarter panel. He found a NOS for $800.00. Is that high? I don't know but if you need it, you need it and you can't exactly price shop on 50 year old NOS parts. I would suggest that you sit down and estimate what it would cost to do what would be needed in order to bring the car up to what you want. Some things you can put an exact price on and others you will have to guess. Add up the rubber in a K-gap catalog, look at chrome prices, check out Y 'n Z's wiring harness prices, etc. Only then can you make an informed decision as to your purchase. One last thought; I would use E-bay as a guide rather than a buyer's market. Compare the E-bay auction prices with those in the WTN and you should see somewhat of a variable. It sounds to me like you are doing a real good job of researching but as an old man once told me "Never be in a hurry when you're spending money".

[Deleted User]

I have done a lot of looking lately, 7,200 is high. You have a lot of work to do there and the end result will be big dollars and lots of time. You would be better off getting a less than perfect restoration for 10 to 12 K and working from there. They show up from time to time.

Unknown

I made the car sound worse than it really is. It doesn't need quarters, or other major components. it needs rockers, and some pot metal pieces, like the rear hornet, hood letters, taillights and bezels, it is all there and all of the pieces are workable. I think that I am convincing myself that if I buy this, and put 4-5 grand in it, i will have a nice car. This is meaning, of course we will do all of the body work ourselves, mechanical items, have the seats fixed (the interior is too nice to scrap), and pick up the pieces that need done, such as weatherstripping, and all, and paint it ourselves, and I think it will be a good car, and all balance out at the end. When you work on an old car for your own enjoyment, you work for free. That's why it is a hobby. The best thing about this car, is outside from having some mechanical stuff done, it is unmolested, and you know exactly what is underneath the paint. As my dad said, what you see is what you get.



A less than perfect restoration is in my mind a bad place to start, you kind of don't know what you are getting into. Who knows what is under the paint, how much filler, and other hidden stuff.



Also, it is always cheaper to buy a done car, in the long run, no arguement here, but also you might be getting someone else's made over POS, or worse. Keep in mind, I am only 29, and got one hudson, and trying to afford a second. THis one is within my skill level and price range. Will it ever be a number one? no, not when I own it, more like a nice 3 driver, that looks good, and would show well. You can't drive a 1, and probably shouldn't drive a number 2. Where's the enjoyment?



I think I am being realistic, any thoughts?

rambos_ride

It sounds like you have some experience but you just can't under-estimate the power of rust.



My 49 - upon initial inspection looked to be fairly solid in the rear sheet metal and unibody frame section. When I poked and prodded more it got steadily worse and really ended up being the worst area of the car in terms of fabrication and rust replacement.



Basically now both rear frame corners, the entire trunk pan, most of the outer roll pan are now being replaced - this is after my initial inspection thinking I only had some minor issues with some rust pinholes.



My point being - unless you take a pick and hammer and a nice strong flashlight - this used car for 7200 - might turn out to be more than you bargained for - so really crawl under the car and take a look at the back.



http://www.49c8.com - You can see pictures of my car when I got it and it didn't look too bad (and my car has never been touched in that the bodywork and paint is completely original with no repairs) - but the rust turned out to be worse than I expected and I too have a lot of experience with cars. In fact another couple of years and this car would have been good for nothing but parts.



My point being is - if you are going to tear something down to rebuild - I would look for a car that hasn't had a lot of recent work. Because if you go to the trouble to break it down you are ultimately going to want to know that eveything that on the car or going back on the car is what you want.



On the other hand if you want a driver/fixer and are not going to tear it down then you would want something that someone else has put the money into first - maybe this 7200 car?



Hope this helps

TOM-WA-

I happen to be a 4 door fan myself and Recently purchased a 54 Wasp...The car had all new interior/paint /weather stripping and Crome....It was a steal on E BAY for $5800......



WRONG..........It took another $6000 worth of Mechanical work to make it road worthy..



That being said I would NEVER EVER Buy another Hudson without getting it up on a Lift and spending a good long time there with a OLD CAR MECHANIC...



It's the Hidden stuff that will kill yah.





Here is a 54 4 Door that appears to be very similar to the Coupe you are looking at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6472&item=4550000279&rd=1





Good Luck

Club Coupe

Okay, so I never quite know when to shut up, but . . . Rambo's story about rust sounds pretty much like mine. I bought my car when I was 15 years old in 1964 and was the 2nd owner. I have the original paperwork etc. It was an original, unmolested car. I drove the car off and on for years and for the most part of it's life it was garaged. Over the years I would notice pin holes of rust in the lower rear quarters and other small surface rust spots, but the floorpans were solid and the car seemed solid. In 1999 a restoration was begun on this "solid" car. Long story short; the more that came off the car the more rust that was found. Knock on wood, no frame rot and some minor patching on the floorpans took care of the rust on my "solid" floorpans. Now this is a car that I have owned for 40 years and I can tell you where every dent, scratch and mar came from. My point is; you never know how solid a car is until you start tearing it down. Originally I figured well under $10,000 to have a nice driver. Multiply that by 2 1/2 that and you will be in the ballpark of what I have in the car. It is a nice driver without a high end paint job, A/C, Coker Wide Radials, etc. and that is what I have in it. Basically, Hudsonkid, I don't think that you can get the car done for 4 or 5 thousand. Listen to Tom and take my previous suggestion as to pricing your parts. But, whatever you do, you have my best wishes.

SuperDave

I am in the process of doing a pretty in depth fix up of a $10K Ebay 54 Hornet Hollywood. Doing everything myself except engine machine work. Spent over 7K sp far. No paint or bodywork yet. No chrome yet. The shop estimates about $3,500 for the chrome. Hydra matic only got seals. Kgap stock went up as soon as I started on this one! I estimate another $3k for incidentals. No interior work is being done.No new glass. This is just a nice fix up. a decent driver...air conditioning, 12 volts, Power steering and power brakes. Total investment NOT COUNTING LABOR will be in excess of 28K. But ask me if I'm having fun!! My advice is to buy it. Todays high price is tomorows bargain. By the way,Hudsonkid. I sent you a private message.

Best of luck and have fun.

super-six

Gravel sheilds can be either, plated or stainless, as can the grille. I believe the stainless is more common. And the 4-door piece is different than the 2-door piece. I just restored a '54 coupe and if your major concern is the investment payback, buy one that is already restored.

Unknown

This is NOT meant to scare you. Just a story from personal experience. Like you, I always wanted a Hudson, in particular, a convertible. I passed on one at Hershey a number of years back and just missed on another a bit later. Finally found on through the WTN. While I could have flown out to see the car in person, I had a plethora of photos to look at and the "reputation" of the collector selling the car. Bottom line is that things are not always what they appear. I know this is not news to anyone with two marbles in their head, but carpet, paint and bondo can cover up just about anything. What is important to note is that most of really good hidden stuff comes when you take the car apart and look in the nooks and crannies. Being uni's, stepdowns are particularly vulnerable to this. Take a look at my pictures. What appears to be a good ten footer turns out to be a bit more work than I had in mind. Because they used so much gooo and weather stripping (mostly in the rear), moisture really collects and rust results. All I am saying (in a long and round about way) is let the buyer beware. Things are not always what they appear. Take it from me........Now, before all you guys slart slamming me, I have to say this has been the most rewarding project I have ever done. Having fun.



Anyway, off my soapbox. Just wanted to share my experience. Here are my photos........ Site will be updated over time.



http://homepage.mac.com/nycdc/Dennis's_49_Page/PhotoAlbum11.html

Unknown

I think that if nothing else I have gotten a bunch of different opinions on this. To make sure everyone knows, I really got under this one and poked around. We have been taking hudsons apart for 15 years, and Oldsmobiles in the same period as well. I am sure I know where all of the issues on this car are. It seems to be the real deal. It looks to me that it has been carefully maintained, and is a good solid example to start with. With the only problems I listed, I think it is a good starting point. Structurally, the car seems to be fine. My main concern would be the wierd 54 hdosn lip on the rear quarters, and finding rockers. which the rockers seem to be locatable. Besides, we bought a hudson before that had perimeter issues, and replaced it all. However, it was not fun. But that's what you do. right? someone has to save them.

[Deleted User]

As long as the work is fun, you are fine. In the end the base price will make little difference. My 50 pacemaker has significant rust, I will have to spend a lot of time at the rear of the car. I am a reasonable welder, but not much of a metal fabricator. I have been referred to a company that makes air conditioning ducts that will hopefully make parts for me. I will need curved channells for rear frame and curved metal for external area at lower rear of trunk. In my case, it will all be fun, I am about to retire and this is a great hobby. I got a complete Hudson Pacemaker for 200 dollars. I have already put 1,800 in the engine and clutch. I have a lot of work ahead of me. I have done a couple restorations before and know that some point I will wish I had never started. Get beyond these points and you will be very glad you did it. Have fun.

[Deleted User]

The advise that has been given is good advise, but it is your money. I could add my two cents but its more of the same. Consider this: Hudsons aren't getting cheaper ,younger or easier to rebuild as time goes by. If this car is your passion buy it. If you are wavering pass it up. Hudsons are a bit unique. As a bunch we Hudsonites have to be a bit more resorceful than the guys putting together Fords or Chevys. No knock on them but if they had to go to some of the lengths we do there just might be a few less Camaro or Mustang guys out there. Do not enter into a restoration thinking it will be a breeze. A guy in air conditioning once told me "there are no easy jobs no matter what the customers says" Well there you have it. If you want out GET OUT NOW. Don't wait until you are halfway into it. Half finished projects NEVER enable the guy to recoup his costs. Think about it. This is a commitment that is not cheap and is not getting any cheaper. Good luck with your decesion.

Unknown

Okay, I thought you guys might like to see some pictures of this car. I posted them to my website, which coincidentally, is about fountain pens, but that does not matter.



check the car out here:



http://www.chiltonpens.com/54hornetcoupe

Unknown

Nice find, given that the car is wearing a PA vintage car plate it is doubly nice. I would pounce on that puppy and then make it a driver. If you are concerned about the appearance, spring a few bucks for paint. Do not try to impress others with your car ... impress you! Get the fun of driving YOUR car now and don't concern your self with the cosmetics. It is a Hudson and who else besides the bunch who hangs out here can say when they last saw one? Thanks for sharing your find with the rest of us lurking Hudsonites.



Good Luck

Aaron D. IL

Hey Hudson Kid. Being a Hudson kid myself I gotta tell you that the coupes ...much less Hornet Coupes are getting harder to come by and with Twin H makes it highly desireable plus it's '54 which makes it a low- production year. Sedans are easier and cheaper to get. I had a little '51 Pacemaker coupe with dual spotlights...looked great but the frame was rotted and I really wasn't in a position to fix it. Broke my heart. Although the price makes me cringe a bit given that you'll probably have to sink some cash into it, if you plan on keeping it and don't care if you get stuck with it I say go for it. Although if you're patient sometimes better deals come up in the WTN than on the open market. Also, I agree with the others...get it to where you can drive it and worry about the cosmetics more gradually. IF you're not enjoying it you'll loose interest. But there's no doubt you'l be the only kid on your block to have one. Big pat on the back to you for saving another step-down whatever one you pick. We need to save all the survivors we can.



Hudsonly Aaron D. IL ad19789@hotmail.com

[Deleted User]

You see this 54 thats posted here for sale http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2576

Unknown

yeah, i saw it, decent car, but it's a brougham.... not a coupe....



what's better than a hornet coupe?



(no need to answer!)

[Deleted User]

brougham? thats a series 6D Hornet Special Club Coupe.

Unknown

nope, brougham...



regardless... I don't want it. i want a club coupe.



check out my pictures and check out the pictures of the the red and white one. look at the rear passenger windows, and the trunk lid, and tell me what the differences are. It is a 2 door sedan, brougham, whatever, but it is not a club coupe.



I can find pictures of a hornet special club coupe, and they are different.



Anyone else wanna confirm this as well, please?

Unknown

Agreed...the red and white one is a two door sedan, no matter what name is attached to it. Ultimately a bit rarer than the club coupe. Nice car for the money. Hudsonkid, buy the coupe, it's what you want and you seem to have the ability to bring her back. Good luck!!

[Deleted User]

Yes you're right backtohudsons looking at the rear side windows it is a Series 6D Club Sedan. And yes a bit rarer as they were the last models to ship and in low numbers. The Hornet Special shipped in three models the Sedan 4dr, Club Sedan and Club Coupe. The brougham was not offered for the Hornet Special Series 6D, well at least according to Langworth and Butler but with Hudson you never know.



The Coupe is nice but I kind of prefer the longer side window as a personal preference.

Unknown

Okay, Grumpy, very funny...

I love the 54 SW coupe, same one that was on eBay a while back, and is in the current WTN... awesome car... it all just seems to work well together. I might add, a bit pricey.... but it seems to be a beauty!

Now the 56 coupe just ain't gonna work... do you guys know I am 6'7" tall? I sat in a met once. do you know how far my head ws over the windshield? egads!!!!!

The 54 coupe fits me better.

If all works out, I will have my 54 coupe.

I am thinking Black....

don't remember seeing a 54 coupe in black.

anyone else seen one/have one?

Unknown

I don't know... I am not real into hudson hardtops.... I think I would look over to an Oldsmobile, if I was going to look at a hardtop. (sorry hudson guys!) It is kind of funny, my dad started out in Oldsmobiles of the 50's, accumulated quite a few, and ended up with a mixing of hudsons. I bet he could have a 53 era NASCAR race.... kind of funny.... The real plus about Hudsons is the fact that you can virtually take everything off with a good set of 6 point sockets... the Oldsmobiles, well, you better bring the torch.... no kidding..... I guess that just goes to show you the quality the vehicles were built to .



I will say this, that hollywood has "good 50's colors" I bet it gets a lot of attention.

bull_islander

buy the car. take 7200 willing to spend it, offer 6500 and see what happens. drive it. enjoy it. work on fixing what you don't like a little at a time and work on the bigger stuff in the winter. and if you don't end up buying it, post back with a phone number and location of the car...

Unknown

My thoughts are, if this doesn't work out for me, in terms fo this 54, I am going to put a good portion of additional money, that I would have used otherwise to purchase it, into making my 50 Commodore correct, and reliable, and wait for the right car. I would like to paint my 50 again, do some interior work, maybe a clutch set-up.... who knows... I got too much hinging on what has to happen before i can make this car thing happen. At least one hudson will get some additional TLC put into it!!!!



BTW, with this post, this is now the most active topic of all time on the Hudson chat, if anyone cares!

hudsonguy

hudsonkid,



For what it's worth, I had a similar (sort of) experience last year. I have a '49 Super that was at the time almost restored, but still needed several grand put into it to make it 'right'.



There was also this '52 Hornet that was on ebay, that I was planning on buying, if the auction price didn't get out of site. I watched it for a week, talked to the owner, etc., and was planning on buying. I went and logged on to the computer about 20 minutes before the end of the auction, and sure enough, the price was still 'reachable' for me. I went to submit a bid, and my computer froze up! No.....not now!!! I rebooted, etc. and got back in about a minute after the auction ended. GONE....My wife was pacing back and forth and said this must be what a miscarriage feels like. (She really wants a Hornet)



Too late to make a long story short, but anyway, I immediately put that money that would have bought the Hornet into my Super Six, and now it's basically done. Well, as done as they ever get. So things worked out just right for me, and I hope they do for you as well.



Good Luck,

Doug