Dry clutch

Ol racer

FYI

I had an inqury this wk regarding dry clutch conversion. Normally Hudson's wet clutches work very well with regular fluid changes;



However I once had a big cube Hornet that the largest 'wet clutch' would not hold the torque so I removed the corks and had a local machine shop rivet dry clutch facings onto the Hudson disc. I also had to shim out the pressure plate to compensate for the additional lining thickness. The set-up worked well...

[Deleted User]

steve conyers has a line on a falcon clutch disc that is meant to be a direct fit, i never called him back to find out the part number, im just not that far into it yet.

did you have any trouble with the dry clutch getting hot under its cover? im debating whether to add cooling holes to the clutch cover (and it would slightly reduce the rotating mass too!)

TwinH

Guy down here is running a Muncie 4 speed behind a 308 with a dry clutch.

Iirc he's using a wilcap adapter.

Unknown

Hi Ol racer,

I was thinking about possibly doing a clutch conversion only if I can't get this one to work right on my 1936 Terraplane.

I don't want to crash those old gears. When wet clutches are cold their personality seems to change, they're slow to let go of the pressure plate. I'm glad to hear it can be done without much hassle and that it works well. thanks for posting that info.

Here's a picture of my Hudson eight from several years ago it was a solid car but spun a bearing, I had to pull the crank out weld and grind and put it all together while the motor was in the car, quite a job.

Ironman

Ol racer

FYI,

I dont recall drilling the cover because I had nowhere to re balance it at the time. I didnt overheat the clutch in my application. The spacers let some air in plus I removed the throw out brg seal.



However, drilling to vent is a good idea plus lightening rotating wt., If drill I recommend re-balancing the clutch.



Local Machine shops used to re-lined clutches & brakes. Today probably will have to check On-Line Sources by typing 'Clutch relining'

Ol racer

Ironman,

Beautiful Car....

I recall hearing that some Machine Shops used to have a 'portable tool' to grind cranks while in the car??



However,If you could do that type of major repair in the car a dry clutch conversion would be a snap for you....

[Deleted User]

i was planning on getting the crank/rods&pistons/ flywheel and cover balanced on my car since i am going to have to re- drill and space my flywheel to suit a 55/56 crank, so if i run a dry set up some venting/weight loss would be a good plan. but not too much though or ill end up making my clutch cover into a party hat.

Clutchguy

Well Hudnuts,this is not something that is easy to address-WITHOUT RE-INVENTING THE WHEEL-Remembering that Hudson used a light flywheel[1/2 thick]DOES NOT let heat sink out without damaging the flywheel.If you have ever seen a dry clutch that is worn or just simply used,it is not uncommon to find hairline heat cracks in them.These dry type flywheels are always at least 1" thick and the hairline heat cracks really don't affect them for normal type use.With that said,the Hudson flywheel is only 1/2 in.thick and it will warp and be nothing but a problem,maybe work for a short period,but it will need attention again and again!!!.The pressure plate is designed to run in oil,this is evident by the 3/8th's dia.pivot pins,and the thickness of the P/pl.itself.which also do not hold up well when converted to a dry system.I have also seen where the ring gear has spun or just fell off because of the heat generated from the dry clutch on the old 1/2"flywheel.Alot of times when the clutch is asked to be stronger,it is because the engine is of much increased horsepower and the vehicle also has been converted to 12 volts.It just turns into a mess!! It is posted in this thread about the adapter from the folks in Mn??,and that works well,but it requires,as I stated,reinventing it!!! The 55-56 dry clutch system works real well,BUT remember,this dry clutch uses a 10 spline clutch disc,which means the input shaft on the trans is now not compatable.One post here states that something is wrong with their clutch,it is in your best interest to disassemble it,find what is wrong and put known good O.E. type parts back in.If you are building a High Powered Hornet engine, and want a stick Hudson trans., dry clutch system,start locating the 55-56 Hash parts.This will require alot less effort.The trans.is a T-86e[??on the-e-]will bolt to the 52-54 Hudson double lever trans bell housing,is 10 spline,availble in H/D.There are some bell housing mods required[starter location,trans mounting,spacing issues]Using this trans you can obtain a floor mounted shifter.I'm sure there are other issues to address,but these are the ones I know of,others can probably add their input and experience to this thread.Wet clutch system = wet clutch parts!! dry system is dry engineered parts-that simple!!! I'm sure there is someone that has an exception to this,But longevity is what a Hudson wet clutch is all about.

Unknown

I wonder if one could use a 55 flywheel and clutch with an older converted disc that has the old spline in the center for a 1936 Terraplane, would the flywheel have to shim out to fit in the bell housing? is it the same diameter?

ironman

Clutchguy

ironman wrote:

I wonder if one could use a 55 flywheel and clutch with an older converted disc that has the old spline in the center for a 1936 Terraplane, would the flywheel have to shim out to fit in the bell housing? is it the same diameter?

ironman

Well,it's like everything else here.I still have a 55-6 Hornet eng.with a stick o/dr.still assembled.I fI could get to it,I would measure the distance between the bell and Pr.pl assembly.This measurement could be used to determine how much space you would need for the for the T-plane trans.I know that the T-plane bell housing is alot smaller,lighter,and fragile.The distance is going to be a lot less from the face of the trans[where the bell bolts]to the rear engine support plate.This is going to make it a problem for the input-length will be short,the pilot bearing is going to be twice the size[A REAL GOOD THING]throw-out bearing action/mating with pressure plate fingers.I guess that I might not understand the question of the purpose to use the old 6 spline design??With all the extra Hornet power,any abuse is going to break the"baby Buggy trans".There is alot going on in that little tiny gear box,and I don't think it will take to much to bust all of it,or maybe you have any endless supply of parts??.

Clutchguy

Clutch guy wrote: »

Well,it's like everything else here.I still have a 55-6 Hornet eng.with a stick o/dr.still assembled.I fI could get to it,I would measure the distance between the bell and Pr.pl assembly.This measurement could be used to determine how much space you would need for the for the T-plane trans.I know that the T-plane bell housing is alot smaller,lighter,and fragile.The distance is going to be a lot less from the face of the trans[where the bell bolts]to the rear engine support plate.This is going to make it a problem for the input-length will be short,the pilot bearing is going to be twice the size[A REAL GOOD THING]throw-out bearing action/mating with pressure plate fingers.I guess that I might not understand the question of the purpose to use the old 6 spline design??With all the extra Hornet power,any abuse is going to break the"baby Buggy trans".There is alot going on in that little tiny gear box,and I don't think it will take to much to bust all of it,or maybe you have any endless supply of parts??.



Something else about the parellel distances trans/rear engine support plate is the '54 and earlier Hudson pressure plate is also narrower than the dry pressure plate.Also the throw-out bearing is the type that needs a little lube.It won't take long for this to become worn out and need replaced!! Real good project for someone to do a bunch of R&D on??.

[Deleted User]

I was once pretty hipped up on doing something dry within the Hudson wet-type framework. Doug's comments are on the money, wet=wet/dry=dry. The Hudson components leave little room for the size of the individual parts needed to go to a dry clutch capable of handling the torque.



The Hydramatic bellhousing may have enough room if you use a hydraulic throwout bearing and retrofit your clutch pedal mechanism to operate a master cylinder. Still, lots of modification and/or fabrication involved.



I swear though, by the time you struggle through that - you'd be better off going with one of the various small block chevy adapter situations and doing the same hydraulic throwout.



If your engine is hossy enough to slip a 10" wet clutch in good shape - you've got bigger problems. Your transmission is likely taking a beating as well.



A highly modified Hudson engine, far exceeds what the T-86 transmission with its 6 spline 1" input shaft will handle. The single lever transmissions can't handle any abuse at the rear of a stock 308 without twisting its input shaft like a pretzel. The hotter you are, the further away from stock Hudson clutches and transmissions you need to be.



A stock Hudson, is just fine with what the manufacturer gave it if its in good condition. If its not behaving well, it needs reworked and reinstalled with skill enough to ensure a good job. Other than that, no modification necessary.



If you're a Hot Hudson, start designing something more substantial than stock in both clutch and transmission.



I'm learning all this the good ol' fashioned hard way!



Mark

[Deleted User]

relocating the trans crossmember 2" to the rear in your stepdown would allow you to run the whole hash clutch/bell/trans. then there is the torque tube to deal with. (which may be as simple to fix as fitting the hash input and clutch extension into a stepdown box or fitting a stepdown case and output to a hash box) many of you would be aware of my thinking out loud on these kind of swaps over the last year. the hash bellhousing has plenty of room for a mcleod hydraulic throwout bearing, but they are $$$$.

to me the hot set up would be get a custom flywheel from wilcap to run a 10" hash disc without the heat issue of a stock stepdown wheel along with a shortened hash input shaft (1 1/8") i made an enquiry with wilcap some months ago, they quoted roughly $500 for a flywheel, final price depends on exactly what is involved in manufacturing it.

then there is the throwout bearing, would a hash throwout work with the stepdown yoke? surely there is one out there that will work

Ol racer

FYI

Your est Bet with a stock motor is remain with the Wet Clutch. My dry Set-up worked good behind my modified Hornet back in the mid '60's running slicks. I did twist a few splines though... A few others converted crudely to Ford clutch and Trans behind their Hornets back then. With todays adaptors and technology available its possible to adapt 4 & 5 spd tranys; However I eventually chose to go with Turbo 400 automatics....

[Deleted User]

mr moderator please boot beauty 123 he is a spam robot, check all the posts he has made.

back to it. a quick slice and dice of the hudson and hash clutch yokes should get the hash throwout working with the stepdown yoke. throwout bearing problem solved. next is the input shaft, if it is possible to cut and re-spline the shaft to the same length as a stepdown shaft, we will have a chance at getting the T86 to stand up a bit better behind a hot 308.

the recipe:

wilcap flywheel to accept dry 10" clutch assembly on stock stepdown crank. (i'd be using a hash unit because well, its what i have)

shortened hash input shaft and throwout bearing tube

modified clutch yoke to fit hash throwout bearing. (or whatever else you use)



expect a result sometime during the aussie winter when i get stuck into it

Unknown

I don't want to change the engine, not looking for more power just thinking if one were to change to a dry clutch keeping the original drive train. I wonder if there are dry clutches from other manufactures with the same diameter and if one was lucky same bolt pattern. Or there may be a way to beef up the flywheel

by bolting on a heavier plate. This is all just thinking aloud, when I get to actualy tearing it apart then it will be more clear I'm sure. Heck maybe an oil change is all it needs anyway.

ironman