Fuel Injection Hudson

Ol racer

FYI

Anyone ever think about Fuel Injecting your Hudson. I have while preparing to retro-fit a 7.4 motor into an older carburated vehicle. I learned that GM's Throttle Body Inj (TBI), (not the Tune Port Inj TPI) is one of the best F/Inj set-ups to consider for retrofitting (for novices).



F/Injection provides 'instant Throttle response' and 'far more low end Torque' than a Carb, and might be the perfect enhancement for a low RPM flathead Motor like Hudson.



I read that TBI is equal in performance to the flashier TPI Set-ups and TBI can be easily adapted to any 2BBL OR 4BBL Manifold.



Personally, I think a GM 6 TBI Set-up with all wiring harness, Sensors and processor would make a good donor. Hopefully, I will do this retro-fit on a future project just to be different..



One would need the GM Distributor adapted to Hudson to provide the RPM signals. (I have already seen several Distributors adapted to Hudson's) Some additional needs would be... a 'universal' In Line Hi pressure f/pump (15 -16lbs), fuel regulator, special fuel Lines, with a return Line to tank, a VS Sensor to provide road speed changes to the computer for idle, cruise, power changes. It may sound like a lot only because of unfamilarity but its really not...



If anyone is interested in persuing the task, I recommend reading the Book Chevrolet TBI & TPI Engine Swapping by Mike Knell www.jtrpublishing.com or look on ebay. Its written by people (just like us) that did several conversions then wrote how to avoid the problems they encounted to make it easier for us.... Just a thought to share...

[Deleted User]

does the GM HEI ignition apply to these models? if so, im thinking that a pertronix in a stock hudson distributor should provide the ignition trigger.

[Deleted User]

By this, do you mean shooting fuel right into the cylinder (drilling a hole in the head)?



Or will it be into the manifold just prior to the intake valve?

[Deleted User]

manifold. the pressure required to go direct are a lot higher

Ol racer

The TBI Unit directly replaces the Carburator and mixes Fuel & Air passing thru the Unit using your 'stock intake manifold'. Would not be much different than retrofitting a different Carb to your motor, except for the electronics, higher press, etc.



Most GM 6 & 8 TBI's are 2 barrels with two small 'injectors' above each barrel. (The 454 (7.4) Motors have much Larger Bores & Injectors to potentially use on a modified motor).



The TBI base is large requiring a plate about the size of a 4bbl. I thought using 1/4 sluminum plate would allow 'counter sinking' 4 holes to bolt onto the Hudson Intake with 'button' bolts, then bolt the TBI to the outside of plate.



I read that Tuned Port Injection (TPI) and Direct Port Injection set-ups are far too complex to reto-fit on another motor for novices (like me) and the performance gain over the simple TBI set-up are very neglible....



Just a thought in case somone might want to persure while re-building their Hudson while I finish another project (or two) and forget what I learned....

[Deleted User]

Thanks.



I was envisioning a fuel rod going along the sid eof the head with a nozzle port into each intake tube just before block.

[Deleted User]

A GM HEI ignition is adaptable to a Hudson. I had two prototypes in the works just for kicks.



It requires a Vega 4 cylinder HEI housing, a GM V6 internals and long shaft. I had all non-computer controlled, even fire, internals - but all the different internals are swapable in the HEI housing. This is how I was able to simply bolt in the V6 components in the straight 4 Vega housing.



The only machine work necessary is to cut the long V6 shaft to clear the crankshaft and cut the oil pump lug in the end of the shaft after the other dimentions are machined.



No reason you couldn't use the computer controlled HEI V6 components in the same Vega housing.



Mark

[Deleted User]

Last time I talked to Rick Pridemore he was building HEI distributors specific for Hudson. He sent me some pics. Maybe he could take a look at this and build us a distributor suited for fuel injection. I would be pretty interested in this.

Ol racer

Hudsonator & 51HornetA



Great Information regarding the HEI Distributor conversion Tips. I had not investigated exactly how to adapt the Dist yet. Better yet If Rick Pridemore has them already converted.



If nothing else glance at GM TBI Set-up. Its nothing more than a gutted Carb with 2 Injectors at the top, that require Sensors and a computer to calibrate.



The End Result is instant throttle response with far more Torque. The Tune Port & Direct Ports look nicer with the long aluminum runners but I read they do not perform that much better than TBI.



Furthermore, at one of the Fastest HRM or CarCraft Street Drag Car Shootouts in 2007 was a TBI equipped smallblock Chevy. (I think 7 or 8 sec) Of couse it was a Edelbrock or Holley Race programed TBI with two stage Nitrous, etc.



My Point is a TBI going into a 4bbl intake manifold was faster than any other Set- Up that came to the Event. Multi carb's, Direct Port Inj, Supercharged, Turbo, etc......... Just something to think about and got my interest...

Unknown

how about the fuel system off a jeep cherokee 6--need the flex plate adapter for the firing sensors and can use the jeep tank with 60 psi fuel pump

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might measure the fuel rail to see if the injectors line up with the intake runners---are there any foreign applications like volvo or jaguar that could work?---bob

[Deleted User]

I know Clifford have a setup that works and they use the same system on Jeeps.

Ol racer

FYI

Actually, Any 6cyl F/Injection Set-up should work on your Hudson as well as it did in the original Vehicle as long as you obtain the whole set-up from the Donor car or trk. You shouldnt mix/match sensors etc. Motors regardless whether old, new or make are all just iron & aluminum.



I have been researching only GM's TBI as the simplist set-up, but same theory would apply to any other cars TBI set-up. Actually, if someone has the knowledge to adapt the more complex F/Inj system to a Hudson would even be better. However, for me I need to keep it simple and economical...



I realize that Clifford (& others) may have a F/Inj set-up, but (I think) they are primarily for Racing whereas Highway vehicle F/Inj set-ups are more streetable, and available in every wrecking Yard. Seen some at Swap Meets too.



*NO CONVERTER Needed*

Failed to mention earlier that I read where you do NOT need to use a Cat Converter and you can run Headers if desired; However you DO need to install an Oxy Sensor near the motor. Weld in 'bungs' are available on ebay, etc



Just thoughts to incent greater minds than mine to consider F/Inj

[Deleted User]

I think Rick's HEI, and the others I've seen, are Mopar module adaptations.



The one I had going on was a complete GM HEI distributor in the Hudson engine.



I will say this, I really don't think it matters what type of distributor you use - as long as it has a magnetic or hall effect trigger. The only difference I noticed between the computer controlled GM HEI and non-computer controlled, was the absence of a mechanical or vacuum advance unit. Your ECU will do all the timing manipulation for you, as long as it knows what cylinder is coming up to fire.



A stock Hudson, with a pertronix, and advance/retard disabled - will work for a fuel injection system with an aftermarket ECU. It treats it just as it would a crank triggered outfit, all it needs to do is time the firing event to the correct piston and inform the ECU.



That's basicly the reason I quit screwing with the HEI, because it ultimately doesn't matter. As long as you fire, can be tuned fairly accurately - you're good to go.



Mark