UHaul Car trailer experience

[Deleted User]

Brownie, you don't need a degree to see the results of people hauling with equipment that isn't up to the job. People buy half ton trucks because the are the loss leaders for the truck lines so they sell for a lot less than a full sized truck. They have softer suspension because most people buy them like the truck look but don't ever plan on really working with the truck. Everything about the half ton truck is built lighter to give a more car like ride, most of the components are from the automobile lines and not the truck lines. Including the brake components. So if you put a 3500lb car on a 2000lb trailer you are pulling over what your truck weighs and close to its maximum rated capacity, throw in whatever junk is in the car and the truck bed plus passengers and the weight goes up fast. If the load is balanced correctly and the driver doesn't go to fast and nothing goes wrong like getting cut off or having to brake in an emergency and your half ton truck can do the job, but people are in a hurry today, they drive too fast, and they don't pay attention to the guy with a big load and they do everything possible to put you in harms way. All I was saying is putting the word Heavy on a truck doesn't make it any bigger or stronger, anymore than putting GT on a car makes it a racer. You may be the safeest hauler in the world but for the job you are doing there are much better tools.



Harry

[Deleted User]

Harry, you sound like one smart cookie to me! Brownie, that was a little harsh.

On a serious note, my pickup is a 2000 F150 7700. This truck is identical to the 1999 F-250 light duty, right down to the different frame, heavy duty axles, brakes, and 7 lug hubs. (Ford didn't make a light duty F-250 in 2000). Would this truck pass the "Harry" test?

Don't sugar coat the answer, I won't be offended if I have a wimp of a truck. When I bought the truck I assumed that it was just your run of the mill, gardener variety F-150.

junkcarfann

Quite a while ago (back in the early 1970's) I did some research using Ford pickup literature. At that time, there were several "150" models, and several "250" models.



The major difference was in the axles, springs, frame, and thus the hauling and towing capacities.



The lightest 150 was almost like a full-size car...3 on the tree, 6 cylinder, car-like tires, and a low towing capacity.



The 150 models went up from there, to a heavy-duty 150 that, if I remember correctly, equalled or slightly surpassed the lowest-rated 250 in capacity.



So perhaps the model designation is misleading as far a towing ability is concerned.

Unknown

Guys it ALL depends on who's doing the towing. Where Harry is at is what he dares to let some green horn that don't even know how to work the ball hitch latch leave his lot with, and beleive me he's gonna go for overkill to be safe and not get sued. An expereinced person or at least one that understands weight/balance/proper speed etc. can do a lot differantly and do it safely. Ever watch a trucker pulling doubles and triples go down an icy mtn. hill ? It's look out below, keep some torgue on the load, keep it all lined up. They know how to handle it, that's the differance. Harry doesn't know if his customer does or not . Take some kid and the first time it wiggles he hits the breaks. JACKNIFE!!!

[Deleted User]

Matt; I have never seen a light duty F250 or a seven lug hub but if you came in with a F150 I wouldn't hook up to your truck. I want to see a 3/4 ton rear end on a truck, that means a floating axle with 8 lugs, heavy hubs, frame mounted hitch. I don't think Brownie was harsh, I'm not the smoothest person when it comes to stating an opinion so I have a tendency to make people defensive. I have the same affect on people who come in with Nissan Titans and Toyota Tundras, they watch the commercial and believe the salesperson who tells them that even though they are rated a half ton they are really much bigger. They might be but if they have an accident it will all come down to they really have a half ton truck and I am responsible for hooking up to it. Insurance companies don't care about sales pitches, and since I am the professional I have to know what is right and what isn't. I had this same conversation with my son when he bought his F150 and then a toy hauler. It only took one trip down from Big Bear lake to convince him he needed a 1 ton truck. It scared the begeebers out of him to have that trailer push him down the hill at the bottom of Onyx Summit when the four wheel disc brakes overheated and faded. He hasn't had the problem with his F350.



Harry

[Deleted User]

Matt; I shouldn't say I wouldn't hook up to your truck, what I meant to say is I won't hook up a load that requires a two axle trailer. If a load can be safely carried on a single axle trailer I will hook up to a half ton truck with no concern.



Harry

[Deleted User]

37T2, what you say is mostly right, when I have a guy come in with a Chevy Avalanche who has never pulled more than a set of jet skis which he calls boats I know he isn't a tower. I've seen him or someone like him doing 80 in the fast lane towing his "boats" and I know he will drive the same way with my trailer. The other guys I worry about his the guy with the Durango or Ford Explorer with the big V-8 who think pulling power is the answer to towing without thinking about stopping. I worry about the guys with the big trucks also, I know size isn't the only answer to safety but I also know if I have to defend my actions in court I can reasonably argue that I attempted to make sure the vehicle was adequate to the job.



Harry

Ol racer

FYI

I hauled 2550lb race cars on a dual axle trailer using a '78 Ford 4X4 'HD' FI50 with a 351 everywknd for many yrs with a tire rack and many extra parts and passengers up & down some mountain roads with at first only 2 wheel brakes then learned quickly that I needed 4wheel brakes. However I had no other problem with power, swaying, or stopping, and no abnormal wear on any suspension components.



Later when I tried to rent a U-Haul for a quick deal they required a F250. I assumed for the same reason they wont hang a plow on a 150 anymore because of the lighter suspension.



I do unsterstand the rationale and legal ramnifications with todays society and bought my own low slung tandem trailer...

[Deleted User]

Rick, thank you, I tend to be abrasive when I don't mean to be but what you said is what I have been trying to say for the last couple of days. In the end it boils down to asking yourself. Would I feel safe with this outfit sharing the road with my children or grandchildren? If you don't have any doubts it is safe go with it, if you have any doubt whatsoever make it safer, and please take your time, and give yourself twice as much room to stop as you think you'll need.



Harry

[Deleted User]

That's what I tell my customers, you can haul whatever you want if you own it. If you want to rent my equipment you have to go by my rules.



Harry

[Deleted User]

Thanks Harry. I've been considering buying a small trailer for moving pianos, in case my subcontractors flake on me. I'm sure it would work out fine for deliveries here in town, but the idea of 3000 lbs of trailer and pianos pushing me down Cajon Pass gives me white knuckles just thinking about it.

[Deleted User]

Matt; 3000lbs isn't too bad for a half ton truck if that is the combined weight of the trailer and load. Get electric brakes and a bulldog hitch, you will always know the trailer is hooked up. If you are going to start towing heavier loads on two axle trailers though you will want a bigger truck. I haul horses, normally three with my three quarter ton dodge, electric brakes on the trailer, 2 5/16 hitch. I just have to watch how I load them. I start at the top of Cajon Pass at about 45 mph and keep my speed down till I'm at the bottom. I figure on the road if I'm driving 55 everyone else is going faster than me so I don't end up tailgating anyone, if traffic slows I am prepared and don't end up catching up so fast I can't stop. I'm the guy everyone yells at because I'm going the speed limit.



Harry

SamJ

This is appropos of nothing, but in the mid-sixties our neighbor drove across Canada and back with is family on vacation, over the rockies, etc. He was pulling a 22 ft "house trailer" with his full-sized 1961 Pontiac with a 6-cyl engine. (Yes, they put GMC truck 6's in Canada in those days.) I'm not saying it was a good idea, but it was fairly common...things were sure different then. Since the "motorhome revolution" cars stopped pulling trailers and trailers started pulling cars. Seems like back then one of the reasons for the "Good Sam Club" was that members pledged to get out of the way because they were going so slow. You would see lines of "Good Sam" rigs going what? 45? 50? and they would pull over to let you pass. Now I'm going the speed limit on the fwy (75 in NM) and guys with Dodge turbo-diesels are passing me pullilng 5th wheel trailers that look to be 40 feet long. Yep, I'm getting old...:D

rambos_ride

Harry Hill wrote:

Matt; 3000lbs isn't too bad for a half ton truck if that is the combined weight of the trailer and load. Get electric brakes and a bulldog hitch, you will always know the trailer is hooked up. If you are going to start towing heavier loads on two axle trailers though you will want a bigger truck. I haul horses, normally three with my three quarter ton dodge, electric brakes on the trailer, 2 5/16 hitch. I just have to watch how I load them. I start at the top of Cajon Pass at about 45 mph and keep my speed down till I'm at the bottom. I figure on the road if I'm driving 55 everyone else is going faster than me so I don't end up tailgating anyone, if traffic slows I am prepared and don't end up catching up so fast I can't stop. I'm the guy everyone yells at because I'm going the speed limit.

Harry

Harry,

When I setup the Crew Cab dually to tow I went and got a new hitch and ball - something I never really paid attention to before was the rating on the hitch AND ball.

I then realized my hitch and ball on my 1/2 ton were only rated to 6k lbs as the standard hitches sold are rated @ 5-6k as are most of the the balls.

I ended up spending 80.00 to get a 10k rated hitch and 10k rated ball - 10k is the max I can tow without upgrading the receiver on the truck, the truck will tow up to 14k

So my trailer says its an 8k trailer but is rated up to @ 7000lbs, 3500 per axle and now my hitch and ball are rated to 10k.

I never felt the 1/2 ton was inadequate, it has a brake controller, dual batteries, disc brakes etc. but it was never a comfortable tow vehicle because with the short wheelbase (and 4x4) it was a much rougher ride.

But, now that I've had the exerience of towing with both, I'd only use the 1/2 ton to tow in an emergency or I couldn't get the dually and trailer into a spot because of the length!

Both of My Tow Rigs Together - I wouldn't want to switch roles

[Deleted User]

Dan, you bring up a valid and important point about trailer weight and tow capability...



First, I would never, ever tow a car on a trailer with a 1/2-ton anything, unless it were a SMALL car and the truck had a brake controller on it. And NEVER more than about 6,000#, in any case! That includes 1/2-ton Suburbans and other SUVs, as well. Most half-tons are fancy grocery carriers and not much else, IMO.



Always remember, a trailer is rated at the WEAKEST point of four things - first, the coupler (on my trailer, it's a 7,000 lb Bulldog; on my truck, it's a Mopar 10K# frame hitch).



Second is the BALL on the hitch. Far too many people use a 5K or a 5500# 2" ball, which is too weak to pull a car on a trailer! Make sure it is at least a 7K# ball, min of 2".



Third is the axles. I have a pair of 3,500# five-lug axles w/brakes.



Fourth is tires. I have four 700-15 ten-ply bias trailer tires, rated at 1,850# each (x4=7,400# total). NEVER use P-rated car tires, EVER! Also, NEVER use an aftermarket auminum or steel wheel unless it's rated specifically for trailer use! Go with a trailer-specific radial or bias tire (less sidewall flex), and you'll never go wrong.



So, with those four things, I am limited to 7,000#, because of the trailer coupler and the axles. Have I hauled over that? Sure. I've pulled a trailer GVW of 9,950# before on it without issues, but I'm not making a habit of that. With a Cummins Dodge dually, I hardly know there is a load back there...which CAN be a bad thing!

timbersmith

Hey, here's something that I've been wondering lately, and it seems that y'all here could enlighten me. I rather recently picked up a old beater truck to use as a daily driver and tow vehicle when needed (I don't expect to use it to tow much) - it's a 1979 Chevy long-bed (131" wheelbase) K10 (1/2-ton 4x4. 350/th350/np203), and looking in the owners manual I noticed that 2wd trucks are rated for higher tow weights than their 4wd counterparts. I would've thought that the 4wd would be more ideal, so why are the 2wd rated higher? Less of a drivetrain loss?



I haven't used it for towing yet, it's still in a thousand pieces waiting for the weather to get better so I can put it together, but I am planning on getting the best equipment for it when I am ready to tow something (trans cooler, brake controller, frame-mounted hitch - currently it's got a bumper-mounted receiver, upgraded wiring, etc).



- Mike

[Deleted User]

timbersmith wrote:

I noticed that 2wd trucks are rated for higher tow weights than their 4wd counterparts. I would've thought that the 4wd would be more ideal, so why are the 2wd rated higher? Less of a drive train loss?

- Mike

A 4x2 truck and a 4x4 truck have a tow weight difference based on the weight of the added 4x4 equipment - otherwise, they are the same truck. No differences in frame, capacities, or anything else, OTHER than tow capacity. It has nothing to do with drive train loss, just the weight of the truck. A 4x4 just allows more opportunities to get stupid when towing, in the hands of a driver lacking experience and common sense. Last comment not aimed at you:)

ESSX28-1

This may be a terminology question, but what are "electric" trailer brakes? Here in New Zealand most "hire/rental" (& many other) car trailers are fitted with hydraulic "over run" brakes which operate when the trailer moves along a sliding shaft towards the tow vehicle. They do need locking out when reversing

Unknown

Electric brakes are operated by hand lever independantly of your tow vehicle and put the drag Behind you where it needs to be, Stops the push from behind, Have to have a controller in the cab and wireing to the rear is likely why not on rentals but you should be able to buy them for your own trailer .

[Deleted User]

Hydraulic (or "surge" brakes) on a trailer mean that there is a separate and dedicated brake master cylinder mounted on the trailer tongue, that actuates the trailer brakes when the tow vehicle slows down and/or stops by "surging" as the tow vehicle slows. Or course, gravity and deceleration being what they are, if the trailer is uphill from the tow vehicle, or if the trailer is being backed up, the brakes will activate, and usually at the most inopportune and inconvenient time! I don't like surge brakes, but with a rental trailer (and high-dollar dollies!), that is what they are equipped with. Most people using rentals don't have the electric controller in their vehicle, anyway...



Electric brakes are wired through the tow vehicle and are activated when the trailer is plugged into the tow vehicle. The servos on the trailer brakes actuate and slow/stop the trailer in proportion to the brake effort exerted by the driver as he stops the tow vehicle. The controller mounts under the dash and is accessible to the driver. It has a rheostat that controls the amount of current going to the trailer brakes (more for a loaded trailer, less for an empty trailer!), plus a manual activation handle that allows the driver to activate the brakes on the trailer alone in an emergency, i.e., if the trailer begins to sway to the point where control is difficult, he can activate the trailer brakes to straighten out the truck and trailer.



Most car haulers have brakes on all wheels. In fact, most states require that. Some only require a tandem axle trailer to have brakes on one axle.

[Deleted User]

Sam, back in the old days we pulled with what we had. Remember the movie "The Long Long Trailer"? I pulled horse trailer with a 61 Falcon Wagon, hat wasn't at all safe but I was young and stupid and sometimes that protects you. I was in hog heaven when I bought my 49 International Pick-Up. That ol six cylinder wasn't fast but it was strong. Yeah, I had to pull over at every turn out but I could put that truck in granny gear and crawl up any dirt road with a horse trailer full of donkey foals and a horse and never stall out. If a car was properly set up with load levelers and electric brakes and heavier tires than grade B and it was the same size as our Hudsons they could probably tow okay. I wouldn't hook a two axle trailer to one but I would a light travel trailer.



Harry

Unknown

A couple of years ago I used a U-Hail trailer to tow a '54 Wasp from Seattle to Yakima, Wa. (150 mi). It towed nicely at 65 mph (I did not use OD in my F150), although there was only about 1" of clearance on each side. As some of the guys mentioned, I told U Haul it was a brand-x full size car, and there was no hassle at all.

[Deleted User]

Yep, and right there is why rental yards keep making more restrictive rules.One guy does something his buddy comes in isn't creative in his story so gets turned away then he say's well you rented the same rig to BDN54 goes into a list we watch and everyone else pays te proce.

Harry